198 replies to this topic

[Rikter]

As per -THIS TOPIC- feel free to discuss/suggest here :)

[ROWDY]

Well I don't think there is any need of card remover NPC.

[Maycha]

Mmm, that warp dungeon feature requiring a quest to activate:

 

Is that the same pain in the ass feature VelvetRO had, where you have to visit the dungeon beforehand in order to gain access to it via Kafra?

 

 

And I'm a little confused on the rates, as there are 6 listed rates to encompass 7 different categories.

 

Are Uncommon Equips and Cards both 5x, or do Cards and MVP Cards both only have a rate of 1x?

 

 

Other than that, things look pretty good to me!

[Bite]

May I ask where the server is located?

[Terpsichore]

I edited the post with some missing info.

 

Also, we have to clear up the rates a bit, cards will most likely be 0.10 and boss cards 0.01.

 

As for the dungeon warper, it only applies to dungeons that require a quest to enter, unlocks will be account wide and geffenia will be open by default for everyone. Though, I was thinking about keeping it locked until someone completes the quest, that person would also get unique achievement for doing so. The same would apply to Kiel dungeon. Could remove quest requirements altogether for certain places, like Ayothaya and Brasilis dungeons as well as making access to the former easier.

Might completely lift all quest requirements once the server is aged enough but I don't want people grinding scaraba hole on launch so they will stay for now.

 

I was also thinking about making the wandering guardian quest not required to access Mora and unlock its quests, the quest would be optional and provide a hefty amount of mora coins as a bonus. Also, tradeable mora coins.

[Terpsichore]

Healer and jobchanger are free, reset npc might have a small fee.

[Syncope]

Terp, feel free to just say that mvp cards should be disabled.

Or.. Make a separate WoE that mvp cards are completely disabled.

[Rikter]

Terp has already clarified most of the things :)

Dungeon warper will be pretty much the same that I designed for Cookie. Dungeons with quest access will require you to do the quest, and once unlocked it will be available account-wide. Some exceptions are made, like Rachel sanctuary where donations will be set as "collected" by default.

Rates are pretty much "to be reworked", it's just a very base setting that I'm using to test things right now, and I'd really appreciate suggestions.
Need to clarify about item drops: There are several categories of item "drops:

-Common ones (Etc, consumables).
-Uncommon ones (Equipment)
-Cards
-MvP Cards
-MvP rewards (The ones you get as "plus" when killing an MvP, beside regular mob drops.

Also, I'd need to clarify a few "options" that are active atm:
-Card remover NPC: I'd rather not have it, but fact is that with the current low population pServer has, and with our low card rates, having the chance to move cards around equipment is a good thing, and won't damage the economy (at least won't affect it too much).
-Reset girl: It is necessary. At least since renewal. This entire mechanic is terribly broken, and I have no idea why gravity keeps messing it up over and over.
-MvP Cards: Some effects are so strong that would break gameplay, others are utterly ridicolous. Truth is that on official servers numbers count, and on the overhall the MvP Card available and the players number work fine together. On a pServer like this, it would destroy balance. But removing them, though could be an option, would be bad, as it's a part of the game. So we'd rather "rework" broken effects into more suitable ones than removing them.

And again, i want to make it clear once again. If you read something you don't like, don't just think "That's just stupic": Say it. Point out what's wrong for you, and suggest a possible change/solution to the matter! I'm here to enjoy ragnarok online myself, as well to make the best-I-Can server out here for you guys, so let me hear your opinions!

[Maycha]

Mmm, that makes me happy. A clear, concise response that didn't deflect anything I asked.

 

The 0.10 Card rate seems perfectly reasonable to me. It always seemed pretty standard as far as low-rate servers go. Things lower than that are just plain troublesome.

 

As a person who actually enjoys doing quests like The Sign, or Kiel Hyre, that sounds pretty fun. While I consider myself to be something of a Hazy Forest expert at this point, I confess that I've always considered the Wandering Guardian quest to be very confusing for a newcomer. Not much is explained, and even on the iRO page, it doesn't go in-depth on navigating the forest or anything. So while I like it, and would have no problem showing people around, I would also be OK with removing the necessity of doing the quest.

[padkoto]

Still be better to have no MVP cards so woe and bg can be fought more evenly. The cards aren’t balanced by an rng drop-rate. Tao, FBH, Thanatos, LK and sinx cards are obscene, gtb can be very strong. Kind of hard to balance them so they’re worth using over a more common card (peco vs tao) but not overpowered. A lot of the MVP cards are total shit, are you going to balance them too?

 

The custom refine adding hard mdef is a terrible idea due to easy freeze/stone curse immunity. Soft mdef is better, although magic doesn’t really need to be made weaker considering only Tetra and Soul Expansion with the new buff have any kill power (and maybe Varetyr Spear).

 

Status effects got shafted hard by renewal, and having a level increase with more stats spare allowed everyone to be immune to everything. It’d be nice to require someone to have to give something up to gain a status effect immunity by doing something like increasing the stat requirements. The skills that inflict status effects by any formula that takes base/job level into account for success rate or duration should also be adjusted (like Siren’s Voice).

 

Are you planning a delay on item usage? Please don’t, or make it quite low if you have to.

 

I saw Terp say healer and jobchanger will be free, does the same apply to warp npcs? Having more things requiring zenny encourages people to earn it and trade items for zenny instead of hoarding. I don’t really understand why you’d want a card remover for the same reason.

 

Are vendors going to be included in total player count? Could you possibly add a counter to the vending map so people can see roughly how much of the population is using @autotrade?

 

I saw you wrote that some skills have been modified. Which ones are you thinking about changing? Some classes badly need love (performers) and unlimit could do with being nerfed (in pvm, it’s not really that much of a big deal in woe). I think the white wing set is probably more the issue than unlimit though.

 

Leveling at 150+ is really a drag with the exp scaling. Any chance of bumping some levels up to make a few more places viable, instead of just grinding mvps / bloody branches? Two features truero has that are pretty nice: cut mvp spawns (50%) and boosted exp for partying (an extra +25% per member I think).

 

What are you going to do about afkemists with their homunculi?

 

A feature I always liked on cookie was increased duration of +20 foods. Any chance that might happen here too?

 

----

Haha sorry for such a long post.

 

Also could you tell me in which country will the server be hosted?

Edited by padkoto, 31 August 2014 - 03:36 AM.

[Innomite]

The only issue I have with MVP cards is GTB, which renders Mage and Priest classes totally useless in 1v1 battles. Of course it also makes you vulnerable against physical classes but hey swapping4thegreat. The rest of them all can be countered. If you're gonna rework them, might as well give some love to cards like Dracula, Sniper, High Priestess or even Amon Ra.

 

I agree with Padkoto on the duration of +20 Foods. With such low rates, we would end up having Merchants selling +20 stat foods at a Joey-tier price (300~600k), and make sure these foods don't get removed by dispel like it "officially" does now, they should only get removed upon death.

 

The status resistance might also need to be reworked. Currently is pretty easy to get 100 vit on any build/class you want, making you immune to most status.

 

Like I said in Cookie forums, for Unlimit, you could make Arrow Storm work in the same way Cross Impact does when you're on Enchant Deadly Poison: Having halved skill modifier. There is no need to modify Double Strafe, Arrow Shower, etc.

 

The 25% party member bonus was on VelvetRO, as well I believe? But you could also increase the base/job exp rate from MVPs to make them more desireable, not only item-wise but leveling, as well. This would encourage people to do more instances like Endless Tower.

 

Reconsider adding Endless Cellar. You can also remove all drops from the MVPs spawned in that instance (including Bio3 and Bio4 MVPs).

 

Edit: don't implement any delay on item usage, please. This is a feature in TrueRO and everyone and their mom uses Ygg Berries and Seeds because of that.

Edited by Innomite, 31 August 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[Terpsichore]

Still be better to have no MVP cards so woe and bg can be fought more evenly. The cards aren’t balanced by an rng drop-rate. Tao, FBH, Thanatos, LK and sinx cards are obscene, gtb can be very strong. Kind of hard to balance them so they’re worth using over a more common card (peco vs tao) but not overpowered. A lot of the MVP cards are total shit, are you going to balance them too?

 
With 0.01% droprate and no summoning room as well as fixed instances (so you can't run multiple ETs during the same timer) those cards shouldn't be a big issue. But yes, we do plan to change the most broken cards.
 

The custom refine adding hard mdef is a terrible idea due to easy freeze/stone curse immunity. Soft mdef is better, although magic doesn’t really need to be made weaker considering only Tetra and Soul Expansion with the new buff have any kill power (and maybe Varetyr Spear).

The mdef per refine change isn't final, I just wanted to make armor refines useful and desirable since they are pretty much worthless since renewal.
Soft mdef is so worthless there's no point. Everything will be tested and changed accordingly, also, the 100 hard mdef for status immunity thing can be changed as well.
 

Status effects got shafted hard by renewal, and having a level increase with more stats spare allowed everyone to be immune to everything. It’d be nice to require someone to have to give something up to gain a status effect immunity by doing something like increasing the stat requirements. The skills that inflict status effects by any formula that takes base/job level into account for success rate or duration should also be adjusted (like Siren’s Voice).

We plan to fix deep sleep, siren's voice and anything else that needs fixing.
 

Are you planning a delay on item usage? Please don’t, or make it quite low if you have to.

Might add a small delay to berries and seeds, might not.
 

I saw Terp say healer and jobchanger will be free, does the same apply to warp npcs? Having more things requiring zenny encourages people to earn it and trade items for zenny instead of hoarding. I don’t really understand why you’d want a card remover for the same reason.

Those npcs were free on old cookie and we don't plan to change that so zeny sinks will be implemented elsewhere, making healer and warper cost zeny only impairs newcomers and doesn't do a thing for established players. Also, decarder will be more expensive.
 

Are vendors going to be included in total player count? Could you possibly add a counter to the vending map so people can see roughly how much of the population is using @autotrade?

That's the idea, have to see if it's doable and doesn't involve too much work.
 

I saw you wrote that some skills have been modified. Which ones are you thinking about changing? Some classes badly need love (performers) and unlimit could do with being nerfed (in pvm, it’s not really that much of a big deal in woe). I think the white wing set is probably more the issue than unlimit though.

For now we only changed potentially gamebreaking stuff, like unlimit, dark claw and full throttle. Eventually many skills will be changed in one way or another. The goal isn't to "balance" and homogenize everything but to give more options and tone down oneshot gameplay.
 

Leveling at 150+ is really a drag with the exp scaling. Any chance of bumping some levels up to make a few more places viable, instead of just grinding mvps / bloody branches? Two features truero has that are pretty nice: cut mvp spawns (50%) and boosted exp for partying (an extra +25% per member I think).

 
Renewal exp scaling won't be active, as stated in Rikter's thread. We will have eden quests all the way up to 175 as well as mission boards. Don't forget achievements for killing x amount of mobs on z map that will give exp and have multiple tiers, for example:
Kill 500 necromancers and get a big chunk of exp and job exp, then kill 1000 more and get an even bigger chunk, this would make plain old grinding more viable for leveling.
Increasing share level range is being considered. Overall, we wan't to remove the need to grind mvps. Also, not going to reduce spawn timers, that would hurt the economy.
 

What are you going to do about afkemists with their homunculi?

Probably autoloot timeout after 5-10 minutes
 

A feature I always liked on cookie was increased duration of +20 foods. Any chance that might happen here too?

 
Most likely, I also want to buff all genetic pots and change alchemist's potion making skill to create amount of bottles based on skill level (selectable) so people don't have to autohotkey.

[Terpsichore]

By the way, server's location isn't decided yet but it will most likely be east coast.

[padkoto]

Thanks for the response. The ideas all sound pretty nice. I like your rebalancing plans, but it would be good to avoid one skill classes as well as one shot skills. Changing a few skills could give a couple of classes and builds a lot more purpose in parties and woe, as well as making them more interesting to play.
 

With 0.01% droprate and no summoning room as well as fixed instances (so you can't run multiple ETs during the same timer) those cards shouldn't be a big issue.

That’s the problem with the cards, someone can get lucky and gain a massive advantage. With low population and very few mvp cards, the good ones can have a big impact. I suppose players could live with the best ones being slightly better than similar stuff in their class and occasionally seeing something minor like an emp breaker with stormy knight card.
 

Might add a small delay to berries and seeds, might not.

5-10 sec (or longer) delay on ygg stuff sounds good, I was talking more about normal pots.
 

Those npcs were free on old cookie and we don't plan to change that so zeny sinks will be implemented elsewhere, making healer and warper cost zeny only impairs newcomers and doesn't do a thing for established players. Also, decarder will be more expensive.

It’s always possible to scale them with level or make them free to a certain level (or both).


If you’re reworking stuff, it’d be nice to give Mechanics a look. Making mechs re-equipable (by turning one of their mado passives into an active skill) would be a huge quality of life improvement. It becomes impossible to SD in an instance and SDing anywhere = being forced to return to town, even if you survived. SD already has a fairly long cooldown and eats all your sp; having to talk to an npc the entire time is incredibly annoying.

The axe skills are also all badly designed with huge cooldowns and bad damage (especially Power Swing. Even with a vellum, it just sucks). The passives don’t make sense as third class skills and are woefully underpowered (a 10 level mastery skill that’s a worse version of their blacksmith mastery and a 5 level mastery that adds soft def and a tiny bit of mastery attack vs two elements). Their FAW skills are also pointless with crap damage and aspd and requiring heavy mats.

[Terpsichore]

Being able to summon back mado on non-pvp maps is already on the list of things to do.

[inoob]

Looks good. I'm looking forward to this Rikter. I see terp's got a pretty good role in this finally, seems all the info is gonna be accurate :)

[Syncope]

@Omen Dispell removing food buffs isnt official. Its the tryhard dumbass dev pizzaguy claiming it is official cause he cant fix jackshit. We've shown him shitloads of replays from kRO that +20 food buffs shouldnt be removed by dispell but we only get the automated generic response "find the fix on rathena or gtfo".

@Terp can you make sure sorc skills work properly such as vacuum and level 3 ventus defensive mode.

Edited by Syncope, 01 September 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[Rikter]

Sorcerer has always been the MOST problematic class, at least when I was developing it, but I'll do my best :)

[Maycha]

Well, you two seem to be hard at work~. Thank you for your efforts, as always~. But, allow me to ask the question I'm sure we're all wondering about:

 

Any idea on when we can expect to try things out?