114 replies to this topic

[Psor]

If you truly don't want 'one shotting first hand experience' how about we prevent players from OHKOing all those monsters? Let me know when you'll consider it.

Good to know you've been playing longer than this game exists and yet you didn't learn anything. One must be the scrubbest of all scrubs to still suck after over 2 decades of playing the game (including almost decade long advantage of somehow having access to game that didn't even get released). Git gud, scrub.

Yes, gotta admt I made mistake in this one. Haven't played pre-re for couple of hears now so looks like I forgotten thing or two. Must have confused this because you can't cast assu in castle anyway so I thought it doesn't work there at all. Still this doesn't change the fact that assumptio won't help you now.

Basically most of renewal privs out there. Just go and check yourself. You'll see shitty bolts for 1-2k dmg total instead of 1-2k dmg per hit.

[Scias]

I didn't read the walls of text.

But I'm assuming the issue is that Psor likes the mobs to be much harder so that we are forced into different tactics in order to defeat them.
While this is unfriendly to noob players, I don't entirely disagree.
But what I do disagree with is that mobs having such a massive boost to matk, but disproportionally having almost no atk is somehow consistent, given the amount of physical based classes if you think of player characters.
I made this suggestion before, but what about reducing the matk, but not all the way to normal, something like 105%, then also increasing every other stat of the mobs, by roughly the same.
If this causes a little too much of a problem with killing lots of mobs the exp could be increased to compensate.

Obviously it's fairly complicated and probably unforeseen balance issues would happen, and I'm fine with the current solution of simply reducing matk. But I'm just suggestion that to see what people think, especially the socialists among us.

Why not discuss this idea, because even though I didn't read the walls of text, I noticed that personal stuff is being said. Bring it back to the topic people. The matk boost is clearly disproportional. I'm not saying mobs are too hard overall, just the matk. So the above solution would be the best of both worlds. (But srs devs just go with reducing matk, I'm only saying this to bring it back on topic and see what the socialist thinks.)

[Lyka]

I enjoy having to party / gear for areas, I think that's nice and more enjoyable than stomping everything. So while the current state of things is that certain thing's are hitting perhaps a bit too hard (Blue Acidus and Lichterns in Bifrost Tower come to mind), I don't want it reverted back to how it is everywhere else: where magic damage is mostly irrelevant.

 

*Keep the MVP's ridiculous spell damage though.

[Psor]

Matk isn't disproportional. Physical skills also hit hard. For example doppel OHKO'd my sorc with spiral when I was somewhere between lvl 140 and 170. I think I had alice shield and energy coat at that time. Monsters just finally have skills working in similar way player's skills work. Just compare your shitty regular attack damage to skills damage. People just don't notice it because monsters use mainly pre-3rd skills which means most aren't AoEs and don't have few cells range like magic.

[Scias]

Matk isn't disproportional.

That's where the consensus disagrees with you. Monsters are not intended to have the exact same system as player characters. Low/mid level monsters obviously don't have asura strike etc so this is where we can compensate by making their atk slightly higher.

[Psor]

Who are you to say what is intended and what not?

[Scias]

If you would prefer venatus with asura strike then by all means suggest it

[Psor]

What does giving custom skills to monsters have to do with apparently fixed (as in official) MAtk? And once again, who are you to say what is intended or not? Gravity, eventually lelka staff can dictate what is intended here and what is not.

[Scias]

Monsters are not intended to have the exact same system as player characters.

 
 

Who are you to say what is intended and what not?

My only statement on what is "intended" had to do with whether monsters should have the same system as players or not (and thus whether some middle level mobs have asura strike).

I am defending the consensus. I don't need to justify the system Leika have in place (not having middle level mobs have asura strike). If you disagree with this consensus, it is up to you do bring another idea to the table, or a reason why mobs should have the same system as players.

It is about the content of the server, not derailing the thread to questioning my personal authority, when all I did was agree with what Leika have done.

[Murasakilucky]

lol i thought my thread would be closed after terp said he will list the low level monster to nerf the magic attack..

 

come on guys.. stop the arguing..

as a sorcerer i know my limits too about the acidus..

and my gear is really low... (only orleans and tidal set with eden staff)

and i'm dual client while doing the quest..

 

but i have finished that quest.. with the help of my friend..

so i agree for low monster magic.. since you guys solo that..

but about the high level.. go party with your friends or someone else

 

the only problem from this server is the people is too arrogant to party with the other people that he didn't know..

i found my self meet other guy in the dungeon soloing the quest..

and when i ask him to party together..

he said " Guild party only.. sorry mate"

 

and this has been bothering me about this game..

this is MMO.. Not Game offline with story line and only solo...

you can do solo when your gear is overpowered...

 

and know you limits..

[DJLhime]

 

 

the only problem from this server is the people is too arrogant to party with the other people that he didn't know..

i found my self meet other guy in the dungeon soloing the quest..

and when i ask him to party together..

he said " Guild party only.. sorry mate"

 

and this has been bothering me about this game..

this is MMO.. Not Game offline with story line and only solo...

you can do solo when your gear is overpowered...

 

and know you limits..

 

The person declined your invite politely "Guild part only.. sorry mate", how can that be arrogant. You're weird.

 

I get your point about soloing the quest, but i'm not or nobody on this thread tried that? My point is about the damage of the thunderstorm or other AOE magic skills. 

 

Partying is ok and is very healthy on this gaming community. However, lets not forget the fact that those damages were a bit high and i believe some of the players here already noticed that. Nobody is complaining about the MVPs matk since everybody seems to like it that way. But for normal monsters with shtty drops? I don't think so. I only visited that map because it was on eden board quest. :/

Edited by DJLhime, 08 January 2015 - 04:59 AM.

[FlashCombo]

Who are you to say what is intended and what not?

Doesnt take a Grav Dev, Jesus or Rikter to understand his words...
Simply Apply common sense here.

Gravity wants money. All they fucking care is money.
If players give up half way through because they get their asses handed, they wont get money. So im fairly sure they wouldnt have monsters destroy people until somwhat much later.
 

And please dont set monsters equal to players lol..... Thats the most ridicolous argument ever. xD We should have Porings use Red Pots then, x400, when things get rough. Every Monster needs to be able to Hide and Fly Wing dodge asura strike and similar. >:) HardCoreRO <- The real experience.

Also the ATK of monsters is already increased. Is what Terp said earlier in the topic. Roughly by 25%. There was also a huge problem that was fixed, which is why we feel why the damage sky rocketed.
Monsters have, as you pros now, 2 ATK values. ATK1 and ATK2 which makes up the damage range. When i checked the "base" Hercules monster database (which is used on every barebones pserver) i noticed 90% of those ATK values were messed up. The ATK2 value was LOWER than the ATK1 value. Which makes no sense and i have no idea how this would even work ingame, guessing the monster simply deals less damage.
Now these numbers were fixed, also for the upcoming content making them hit for the approriate values. So a 50~20 ATK "Range", became a 50~75 ATK "range".
And since most of us idiots played on alot of servers where those things were never changed, we have grown used to them. Now it feels like everything hurts like a truck. But at the same time Terp confirmed something being not right(?). Also if you check the BUG SECTION. you can see some mvps hitting for nothing, then hitting massive damage. So im fairly certain, magic calculation for monsters is simply not properly working atm.

Edited by FlashCombo, 08 January 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[Scias]

the only problem from this server is the people is too arrogant to party with the other people that he didn't know..

I just invited a couple of strangers to my party yesterday.

If you didn't get invited to a party, that is to do with a player, not the server.

[Aina]

I think it should be revised for lower level monsters, since people are not geared enough to tank it(literally ANY magic that I took when I was pre-100 killed me right way), and MDef is not a early status to get. For mid~high(100+) level monsters, it's kinda fun this way, adds more challenge and make people actually invest in pvm mdef for certain areas, it's not a problem for me at least in any of my characters.

[Psor]

@Flash Combo
Gravity wants money. All they fucking care is money.
If players die to monsters they spend cash for pay2win gears, refining ores etc to not die.

See? I can do that too. You can stick your guess up your ass because it's as shitty as the one I just posted.
 

And please dont set monsters equal to players lol..... Thats the most ridicolous argument ever. xD We should have Porings use Red Pots then, x400, when things get rough. Every Monster needs to be able to Hide and Fly Wing dodge asura strike and similar. >:) HardCoreRO <- The real experience.

Ok, looks like you don't understand what I had on mind. Maybe I'll put it that way: if player has some Atk/Matk then skill takes this Atk/Matk into formula and calculates damage based on this Atk/Matk. That's how skills work. In renewal monsters use atk for both magical and physical skills. What you're advocating for is fucking this consistency up and basically pulling base for magical skills from your ass. It's like Warlock casting Comet and hitting much weaker than he should with his MAtk.
 

Also the ATK of monsters is already increased. Is what Terp said earlier in the topic. Roughly by 25%. There was also a huge problem that was fixed, which is why we feel why the damage sky rocketed.
Monsters have, as you pros now, 2 ATK values. ATK1 and ATK2 which makes up the damage range. When i checked the "base" Hercules monster database (which is used on every barebones pserver) i noticed 90% of those ATK values were messed up. The ATK2 value was LOWER than the ATK1 value. Which makes no sense and i have no idea how this would even work ingame, guessing the monster simply deals less damage.
Now these numbers were fixed, also for the upcoming content making them hit for the approriate values. So a 50~20 ATK "Range", became a 50~75 ATK "range".
And since most of us idiots played on alot of servers where those things were never changed, we have grown used to them. Now it feels like everything hurts like a truck.

I even visited Abyss Lakes this morning and tested the damage on naked sorc, here're the results:
My sorc had 231 SMDef.
@mi shows that Acidus in leika databse after atk boost (which is according to Terp official, just like monsters using their Atk for magic skills formulas) has 1423~2016 Atk.
Blue Acidus has lvl8 Lightening Bolt (8hits) and lvl9 Thunderstorm (9hits). Both skills in renewal hit for 100% MAtk (or in case of monsters Atk) per hit.
Lightening Bolt hit me for about 1300 dmg per hit. 1300*8 = 10400 dmg.
Thunderstorm hit me for about 2000 dmg per hit. 2000*9 = 18000 dmg.
If anything is fucked up then it's SMDef because if SMDef reduces each hit then maximum damage of Thunderstorm should be 1785*9 = 16065, Lightening Bolt damage looks possible. Still even if SMDef is fucked then fixing it won't help you much because I had 130 base int and it should reduce only 1800-2000 dmg. The sorc which complained had 14k hp so it'd OHKO him even with as high SMDef as mine.

In other words, if attack boost is correct then everything works as it should and you're begging for custom casual change. And what I find funny is that you bitch only about magic skills when physical skills work the same way and they also hit like trucks. You just don't see it because as I've already said, most skills monster have are pre-3rd skills which means phyical skills don't have AoEs and long ranges like magic skills. Nobody complains about spirals for 50k dmg and other stuff like this.
 

But at the same time Terp confirmed something being not right(?). Also if you check the BUG SECTION. you can see some mvps hitting for nothing, then hitting massive damage. So im fairly certain, magic calculation for monsters is simply not properly working atm.

Yes, but MvPs happen to hit for much lower damage than they should, not much higher. And it never happened to me so I'd look for the reason in RG or monster skills, not in magic itself.

 

@Terp

Could you summarize us what is suspected of being bugged, what is official, what does this Hercules Atk change include and how exactly magic skills should take monster Atk into formula to clear things out?

[nokia1080p]

Wow, this post is on fire :D

 

Well i think too some magic atack's are a tiny little bit overpowerfull but.... I don't see any problem on it since to reduce this OP damage people can always use Elemental Potion / Elemental Armor / Shield.

 

But the problem is when the map have more than one element... Then you can say that you are messed up. But i can't recall any map that use more than 1 element, or if it use 2 element's there's always a balance between them (Scaraba for exemple: Thunder Storm and Earth Spike 2 element's, but with Earth Armor you can reduce both elemental damage to low values).

 

It wound't be funny to have soo many ways to protect from magical atack's when you can simple act like it does nothing big. Even MVP's can be easy tagged with those's tip (don't Gopi have Earth Drive and Fireball btw O_O ?), but well it's all about player skill.

 

Nerfing some mobs might be wise but forgeting complety about this balance seem's not soo good for the MMO behavior of Rag. If people solo mvp like it's right now, think about it when mvp's/mob's get weaker /sniff

 

I myself don't agree with nerfing this chage.

[Psor]

Bifrost Tower and Biolabs use all 4 basic elements iirc. And you actually can reduce all magic skills. You just have to stack mdef (still it's kinda shit) and gears that reduce mutliple elements like proxy or some accessories.

[Scias]

I'd like to give this thread a firm +1. After getting the cash shop water armour and wearing it, waterball from something as arbitrary as aqua elemental still kills at an unpottable rate of damage. Pretty ridiculous, like cRO's lightning spear of ice.

[Psor]

Pot harder.

[Scias]

If I get banned for macro autopot I'll blame you ufuf

 

But seriously, I didn't need to pot fast atall when tanking Garm.

Edited by Scias, 24 January 2015 - 04:55 AM.