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(Guillotine Cross) EDP modifier on Rolling Cutter and Cross Ripper Slasher


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#21 Lyka

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:09 PM

Aha, misunderstood. Only seen these items on db's not ingame.



#22 Lexii

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:50 PM

Sooooo, Terp are u going to bring back old EDP formula or what?
All i see in here is people saying its OP as fuck, while i don't see any GX playing WoE
Bunch of clown. 


Edited by Lexii, 02 March 2015 - 12:51 PM.

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#23 annaquin

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 12:03 AM

Hi, if I can fuel the debat...

 

The only problem from EDP was grimtooth

 

Having 200% + arrow effect ( status curse/poison/mute/stun/chaos/bleeding) + Weapon dmg multiplier + Hidden status + Long range 11 cell + aspd 190 ( 7 hit/sec)  + elemental  + 3x3 + GTB card + EDP 400% + EDP poison

 

Before renewal it was the strongest skill in history of Ragnarok Online that put in trauma complete guild unable to deal with it for months.

 

Compare to TC or asura that only deal with single target, EDP Grimtooth could kill a whole guild even full geared in matter of seconds. 

To be more accurate, it was reported that curse arrow + grimtooth was so much powerfull that GM even coudln't defend against it in PVP.

 

But renewal killed GX for no come back and to prevent massive departure of the class they added CRS. But at first it was useless and far more versatile than SB.

Then they balanced it to make it shine a bit but it is as of today still a sucky skill.

 

You can't possibly enjoy playing GX without grimtooth and just idel around spinning until you get your 10 count to launch a stupid single target CRS so the class suck no matter what they tried.

Even Grimtooth with poisonning sucks ... ( ok not that much but still )

 

You have also to make things with comparaison.

Any shura ( Gentle energy+Gain) + Earth shaker + Rampage Blaster will do far better now than GX EDP ( 100kz the bottle or 10 mn of stupid farm per bottle )

 

For a shura it's zero cost of time to deal more damage than a GX that need to farm its bottle, its poison, it's arrow. 

At the end of day..

 

Grimtooth used to lock on is inferior to Jump+cursed Circle

GRT area 3x3 dmg aspd 185 ( 1000% / sec ) inferior by RG 7x7 ( 3000%/ sec )

DPS 1000% /sec inferior to KA 1000%/sec + Bonus 

11 cell inferior to KA

 

All in all , GX on kRO or iRO is been marginal since EDP GRT was nerfed.

 

There were no skills but poison-2 usefull for GX.

Some emo kid complained about Oblivion and Gravity made the change so Shura could also cure GX poison.

 

At the end , only retards play GX, all tournament show that GX isn't played competitiv at all.



#24 Neryth

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:56 AM

I feel like I have to reply just to address the absurd quantity of things that are outright wrong in your post.

 

The only problem from EDP was grimtooth

 

Having 200% + arrow effect ( status curse/poison/mute/stun/chaos/bleeding) + Weapon dmg multiplier + Hidden status + Long range 11 cell + aspd 190 ( 7 hit/sec)  + elemental  + 3x3 + GTB card + EDP 400% + EDP poison

 

Before renewal it was the strongest skill in history of Ragnarok Online that put in trauma complete guild unable to deal with it for months.

 

  1. To my knowledge, there are no arrows that cause chaos or bleeding.
  2. You HAVE to be hidden to use it, which is actually a disadvantage. The actual "advantage" of that is simply the advantage of the skill "Hiding".
  3. Grimtooth is not 11 cell range.
  4. Are you trying to say that GTB card can be worn while using Grimtooth?
  5. I've seen many, many things "put in trauma a complete guild unable to deal with it for months" on many, many servers, up until people realized _________ counters it. In the case of EDP Grimtooth, the list of things that can put a stop to it is so long that I don't even see the point of putting it down here.

 

Compare to TC or asura that only deal with single target, EDP Grimtooth could kill a whole guild even full geared in matter of seconds. 

To be more accurate, it was reported that curse arrow + grimtooth was so much powerfull that GM even coudln't defend against it in PVP.

 

GMs are not mystical/mythical, unkillable creatures like dragons or unicorns or something. The only way the GM would die to just about anything, really, is if the GM decided not to stat him/herself out or use any commands whatsoever, or if you were playing on some sort of ultra highrate. I really don't understand the purpose of your anecdote here.

 

You have also to make things with comparaison.

Any shura ( Gentle energy+Gain) + Earth shaker + Rampage Blaster will do far better now than GX EDP ( 100kz the bottle or 10 mn of stupid farm per bottle )

 

For a shura it's zero cost of time to deal more damage than a GX that need to farm its bottle, its poison, it's arrow. 

At the end of day..

 

Arrows are not expended when using Grimtooth, so you don't exactly need to "farm" them. Also, the selling point of Guillotine Cross poisons are the status effects, so a straight damage comparison is irrelevant.

 

Grimtooth used to lock on is inferior to Jump+cursed Circle

GRT area 3x3 dmg aspd 185 ( 1000% / sec ) inferior by RG 7x7 ( 3000%/ sec )

DPS 1000% /sec inferior to KA 1000%/sec + Bonus 

11 cell inferior to KA

 

If I'm correctly interpreting "lock on" to mean ability to immobilize, Snap/Body Relocation + Cursed Circle does 0 damage, while Grimtooth immobilizes people by virtue of hitting them so quickly that they have difficulty moving without some sort of Endure effect, and rapidly applying status effects on top of that. You also state that a 185 ASPD Grimtooth is inferior in DPS to Rampage Blaster based solely on the %, completely disregarding the fact that Rampage Blaster is not at all a spammable skill. By your calculation, Rampage Blaster is somehow being used once per second. You then proceed to compare a ranged AoE to a ranged single target. On your final point, again, Grimtooth does not have 11 range.

 

The only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that your server experience consists of ultra highrates where people are somehow hitting instant cast on Shura and spamming Rampage Blaster on each other, Assassins can somehow wear both a shield and a Katar simultaneously, arrows are consumed by Grimtooth, etc. etc.

 

The only point I can really agree on is that Rolling Cutter is boring as shit.


Edited by Neryth, 28 April 2015 - 06:59 AM.


#25 Salad

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:02 PM

There was a discussion about reverting EDP to pre-renewal behavior (400%) from its current 5x Weapon Attack and 4x Equipment Attack modifier, or modifying Cross Impact to be 75% under EDP. What are the thoughts on adding a 2x Status Attack increase to EDP as it is? It would be a straight buff to EDP on this server, but would be a bit of a middle ground between the pre-renewal and current EDP formula. The formula as is needs multiple party buffs to equipment attack to really shoot off, which I think is thematically kind of weird for a GX, and there are other damage classes in the first place who do more before those buffs, and maybe after. (We have not tested buffs aside from Arch Bishop & Striking yet on EDP). I have no idea how much 2x status attack will be adding to damage, but the issues with EDP being only weapon/equipment atk have already been discussed. Status attack would also be easier to keep track of as it isn't increased by gears or elements.



#26 annaquin

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:43 AM

Neryth : I don't know what you are saying, that what's happened on kRO before renewal not on private servers. I might report it with inaccuracy but that's news from like what 4 or 5 years ago.

 

( thanks for fixing inaccuracy , 7 cell )

You don't GRT with GTB , you simply render Heaven Driven useless ( that was before prerenewal ) while cloaking.

 

The trauma was ( if I recollect my memory ), once the GRT started, HW , Prof ,Hunter was dying in 1 sec or 2 render the SX totally unkillable for others class. 

And WOE wasn't played alone, but pre renewal , SX was all about GRT vs Hunter/HW.

 

Post renewal is the 1HIT KO area, transforming the game into shit and DPS skill into even worst. And you can't even use the status Hidden since Earth shaking bypass Flee.



#27 Neryth

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:03 AM

In terms of WoE, Professor is the last class that should be dying to EDP Grimtooth, unless the prof is trying to run a pure INT/DEX bolter (even a hybrid bolter/support can tank it). Sniper only dies to it if they don't have the reaction time to equip a shield (assuming they're defaulting their bow for some reason) or use detecting. High Wizard under Bragi in prerenewal can basically use instant Heaven's Drive spam and then drop a Quagmire. Devotion on any of those classes makes Grimtooth almost unusable in most settings. A Champion with devotion can just Ruwach and snap onto the SinX with virtually no risk. There are so many counters to EDP Grimtooth that a guild that can't deal with it has no excuse. The only scenario in which EDP Grimtooth is really as powerful as you claim it is, is precasting.

 

Even 1v1 without WoE reductions, those classes can survive against a SinX for a very long time if both sides know what they're doing.

 

The supposed DPS you claim EDP Grimtooth is putting out is only possible vs either ungeared players, or with Thanatos/Incantation Samurai Infiltrator.

 

Edit: This is official servers you're talking about, so all of what you said is quite probable. The squishier classes would drop to EDP Grimtooth because of lag, and the SinX probably has like 4 MvP cards and Megingjards, I guess.


Edited by Neryth, 29 April 2015 - 07:18 AM.


#28 annaquin

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 10:22 AM

A lot of paper theories has been tried, tested, debat 5 years ago about EDP GRT

 

In the end , only the results talk... they were all unable to deal with it and they QQ about it.

I think it was an Event GM WOE castle or something like that that made gravity realize the problem was serious.

 

Also at that time, I don't think people were able to defend against curse status because blessing was single target and nobody care with panacea or holy water.

So your theory about Devo Crusa and Priest ruwach sound not even realistic in middle of intense brawl fight.



#29 Psor

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:53 AM

If it really would be so good, it'd be in priv server meta. It isn't, so I assume you're talking about some outdated shit from official servers.
Oh wait

I don't think people were able to defend against curse status because blessing was single target and nobody care with panacea or holy water.

Yes, you're talking about some scrubby, outdated, official WoE.

#30 annaquin

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:31 PM

That was probably in 2006 or even older problems. I don't think kRO WOE was scrubby ( laggy yet, but scrubby, that's unheard of .. )



#31 Psor

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 03:04 AM

So you think shit that happened in 2006 applies perfectly to 2015?

#32 Lexii

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

that Grimtooth trauma is real.


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#33 annaquin

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:53 PM

You make no sense PSOR: I am telling why Gravity changed EDP Formula, who cares how today is.



#34 Psor

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:37 AM

Logic tells me to care how it works now because it affects me while I'm playing right now. More like who cares why graity changed it 9 years ago.

#35 annaquin

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:57 AM

Ok,

 

I asked on kRO some elders, the reason why EDP been specifically  removed from Grimtooth only was due to the new skill poisoning.

 

As Grimtooth + Poisoning provide FAR too much problem , So GX can use EDP+Poisoning+RC or GX can use PS+GRT but with less ability to kill.

 

 

And WOE Guild are still been traumatised by Grimtooth even today. 

 

As a note :

You were talking with very promising idea that WOE on leika would be far from been scrubby, yet reality made it harsh to even watch. You shouldn't look down on people without backing it up.



#36 Psor

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:40 PM

Leika WoE looks bad for entirely different reasons. Grimmtooth with or without EDP won't change anything. In fact, I don't even know why did you bring the supposed reason for change from years ago in the first place. It looks like you just showed off that you know some stuff and that's all, didn't suggest anything to solve problem (if there is any) or anything.

#37 annaquin

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 07:24 PM

The question was EDP on RC and CRS , I care less about your self conception of information and trolling ...

 

EDP CRS is leet, EDP RC however is the crappiest skill ever ( mostly Level 1-4 ).

The flinch animation it does on enemies isn't working as intended except when the target is under either pyrexia or slow cast. The reason is some instant cast attack, are animation dependant and have their delay resetted. 

Example : Chaining Spear Tab/Bowling Bash/Occult Impact under RC spam

 

Technically only poisoning is doing the differences , which already require 10 skill for research poison, 5 point of Poisoning ... killing the Skill Tree of a GX

 

So without a single 1 HIT KO move, a GX would be even a non sense ... And EDP CRS isn't even guarantee to kill full geared ( suffer 20% as skill, and 40% as long range )

 

The DPS of EDP CRS is not even something you should look over, with a minimum 5sec to reach its peak value, it take at least 7sec to loop the dmg. Granted CRS doesn't suffer any other penalties which in middle of WOE could be a lethal bonus to discard warlock and hunter camping on LandProtection. But that's all to say, a tool for stealing MVP and a tool to snipe...



#38 Byte

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 07:42 PM

EDP will be changed (for the better). more info a bit later.


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#39 Lexii

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:03 AM

YEEEEEE.



#40 ROWDY

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 01:50 PM

Ohh Noes. SUICIDE GX INCOMING.




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