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#41 tokola2

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:13 PM

I didn't read most of the shit before posting, also just shut the fuck up psor since everyone knows you're just a forum retard and you know shit about what's going on in the server. (Proof: Any player that spent a little time playing this shit knows how much the server is lacking leika coins going on in its economy, everyone's pretty much stacked on zeny and looking to buy cash items and don't even bother farming anymore since zeny's worthless).

 

 

The real problem on this server was the lack of attention on the Staff's side.

 

You made PvM harder, lowered rewards, no PvP activity, fucked up WoEs. But i think the worst thing was that which tesdey pointed out: the player's frustration which was dealt on the "NO SEX GIVEN, DEAL WITH IT" basis.

 

If you guys would at least care, you'd have more time to deal with the problems. The server already had the potential to be toxic since it lacks rules regarding behaviour, but it's like no point to keep on playing when you get frustrated by PvM, then you go talk to someone and the very administrators of the server are rude to you and then when you are about to play woe it gets fucked.

 

I don't think you guys get that the burden on making the server better is your and not the player's and also that the players are entitled to just leave if they're not having fun, people have better shit to do than getting frustrated on RO.

 

 

You guys had fuckton feedback, i don't even usually to spend time on these kinds of shits and i spent a lot of time giving feedback. But after like hours of talking and shit they're just like "Well, post it in an organized way on the forums so we can do something". I think quite some players could relate to this experience, especially WRP ones.

 

 

 

 

tl;dr

 

Next time use your feedback better instead of sending people to forums.

Don't forget that people play shit to have fun and they're free to just no play when you take the fun out of it.


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#42 Terpsichore

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:31 PM

We've had a lot of feedback, and many things were changed due to it, that's still the case. Most of the issues have been dealt with already.

As for sending people to the forum it's so we can have it all organized and have a civilized dicussion, it's hard to keep track of otherwise.

 

As for not caring, considering that Leika has been pretty much a fulltime job even from before we launched beta, yeah, we do care, certainly a whole lot more than usual, in fact, probably too much for our own good.

 

Our only intention since the beginning was to make everything as good as possible while innovating with new content and features, frustrating players certainly never was on our minds.

Like I said before, we aren't going anywhere and we aren't stopping improving the server.



#43 Krabs

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:29 PM

 

Our only intention since the beginning was to make everything as good as possible while innovating with new content and features

 

well this is our problem here, too much pleasure of making your server good, that you forgot about the concept of enjoyment. 

a server who just wants to be as good as possible is very conservative and theres no flow into it, while a server that is enjoyable to play grows and evolve 

 

 

frustrating players certainly never was on our minds.

 

Why is that?, isnt that this players also supports your server to grow?, you should hear them out and ditch your ego "its not about you or the outcome, its about doing and learning" - i read this somewhere in the www  

 

There's nothing wrong about rebalancing of such mvps, but you overdid them, you forgot that some people killing weak sauce mvps certainly an enjoyable feeling, just like me, i enjoyed ohko-ing smallfry mvp with gfist idk why but its fucking fun.  Well some doesnt approve about the old mechanics of cheesing mvp and they certainly doesnt enjoys the ohko thing, we could think of another way for this hardcore players who wants this "adapt concept" like making an mvp tower with all those hardcore set up of yours, so there they can make a party of hardcore fanatics and have a world of there own.

 

whats left here are prontera fan's club or some hardcore players who loves darksouls level of difficulty, definitetly you need to balance this, even psor isnt playing because server is too stronk AHUEHUEHUE he is just too shy to admit it


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#44 Terpsichore

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 05:40 PM

That's what I'm doing right now, MvPs have been toned down while still offering largely increased rewards.



#45 Susurro

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 07:29 PM

frustrating players certainly never was on our minds.


Why is that?, isnt that this players also supports your server to grow?, you should hear them out and ditch your ego "its not about you or the outcome, its about doing and learning" - i read this somewhere in the www
You should read it as: "making players frustrated wasnt our intention". Not : "i dont want to listen to frustrating players."

Edited by Selphie, 19 March 2015 - 07:32 PM.


#46 Moonbeam

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:36 PM

Meh. The devs are really knowledgeable and skilled and dedicated. Sure the devs can fix bugs and they can fix in a timely manner but it doesn't necessarily make the game more fun. Devs are NOT admins and unfortunately, it seems to be the case here.

 

The staff feels too content with their decisions because the server fanboys and fangirls give them a false sense of security. What Ania said some several posts back was right. Saying RO is a dead game is not a good excuse. It's supposedly an admin's role to find ways to make it not seem that way. Insisting that it's just how it is is plain ignorance. I see you replying to every single post here with much defensiveness. Can't you just accept that you've screwed up in many different areas? The dissatisfaction is real. When are you gonna get that?

 

I can go on but the other players who are trying their best to help out have said a lot already.

 

TLDR Server would've been awesome coz the developers are great. Sadly, not all good developers are good admins. There's a difference between the two and the staff is pretty much a perfect example to illustrate the difference.



#47 Terpsichore

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:51 PM

We already caught the notice are are working of it, hence the recent MvP and low level monster spell changes.



#48 Scias

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:32 AM

Pfff @ everyone freaking out because some BRs left the server. If anything that makes the server better. BRs cross even more borders than omen so they would have left anyway. The staff here are addressing the issues and fixing previous errors. Servers only die when the staff stop caring. 


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#49 Krain

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:45 AM

I had many of the same concerns as many of the people who already voiced their concerns about the server.

 

Moving forward, I hope that the Admin team will take these suggestions into account as the server progresses.

 

On a side note. As one of the previous posters has already mentioned.

Admitting to failure is not a bad thing, as long as you know what went wrong and attempt to fix it instead of

claiming the mistake was due to some other cause.

This only causes more problems in the long run which I feel contributed strongly to the situation right now.

 

In conclusion, I would like you guys to think of questions like these. Consider this my contribution:

  • Would you, as a player play on the server for a long period of time?
  • Would new players be compelled to stay on the server?
  • What makes this server different from other servers out there?

All in all, I think this server back in beta had a lot of potential. Do I still think it has the potential to be great?

With work and listening to constructive input from the players. Sure.

 

-Krain



#50 Shale

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 01:17 AM

Personally, I think being dyanmic and flexible is what makes good into great, in terms of games. Take a look at how League of Legends balances, rebalances, observes, then balanaces again. Sure, some people prefer DotA, but LoL is the most played game in the world right now, and only going up in terms of playerbase.

 

It's not just due to dynamics though, but also transparency and the willingness to realize a mistake, and backtrack, then try again.



#51 Terpsichore

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 01:54 AM

That's what I've been doing here, observing, gathering feedback, adjusting, etc.

 

Seems like the whole communication thing didn't work as well though, gonna try harder and with a different approach now.



#52 Innomite

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:27 PM

Game is impossible. Also, no one is forcing whoever is "complaining" to stay. They're free to go to wherever they want to. 

 

On the other side, name me a similar case of communication between Admin-Player. Because as far as I know (call me an ass-licker if you want, and if you do I win) Terp has been doing a great job both community and features wise. We're the most "advanced" renewal server that has most stuff working properly. 

 

I've heard people saying that this is a pay2win server. Oh well do you see Bloody Branches or HD Ores in our Cash Shop? Sure you can get Manuals, but it's not like you need to donate to afford such items. Our Cash Shop items aren't account bound. They can be traded. They can be put in the market for "reasonable" prices. I kinda blame Gio for increasing Leika Coins' price. But if you guys don't put effort into trying to control the economy, it will be ruined nonetheless.

 

WoE/Siege/Vellum gears are disabled in here. So I don't see how "OP" can someone become if not with Glorious stuff from BG.

 

Refining is already easy. And seeing as MVPs were toned down (yay for removal of Kaupe), game shouldn't be as "impossible" as it was before.

 

You guys kept on playing for most updates. And now I don't even know what the hell just happened that 2 big guilds quit. If it's too much to ask, why did those 2 guilds quit?


Edited by Innomite, 22 March 2015 - 11:28 PM.


#53 Tesdey

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 12:09 AM

You guys kept on playing for most updates. And now I don't even know what the hell just happened that 2 big guilds quit. If it's too much to ask, why did those 2 guilds quit?

Weekly changes that frustrated some players; some bug problems; and harsh PvM & lving;

 

In my view that's what led the three guilds leave quit



#54 Shale

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 01:50 AM

I think a fine job is being done, overall, myself. Yes, the base of the game does circle around what the admins and devs do, but the community aspect of the game revolves around the community. The changes to the game have not been perfect by any means, but I think the community itself has some maturing to do in order to fit itself into that which would be considered a hospitable and friendly category.

 

I've made a couple of posts in various places pointing out that the community itself was incredibly toxic, due to the vulgarity and seeming lack of regard for respect toward others - This seems to be a problem that has mostly been surmounted, as it has been like a week and there has only been a few outbursts of racist/vulgar/sexist/etc shit that no decent person would want to see in a global chat. However, mostly does not mean completely, and it's going to take a joint effort between those responsible for their actions, and those responsible for moderating those who refuse to be responsible for their actions. Both have to be willing, and both have to understand that a community online is very similar to one in real life. I don't know anyone on the server, so to me it just looks like some people bailed because they weren't allowed to spam NIGGER in the main chat anymore, because that particular tumor seems, as I said before, to have been mostly removed. The healing process begins after that sort of thing, and we can only hope new blood flows. Figuratively. I am not advocating shankings or anything.



#55 Scias

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 01:52 AM

Poisonous groups of people are detrimental to the server, so it is best when they're not here anymore. In the food industry we call it the "vermin cull", where there is an infestation and culling off several thousands of pests is required in order for the quality of the product to improve.

#56 Terpsichore

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 02:45 AM

Best server I played on had pretty much no rules regarding speech and the community mostly evolved to moderate itself, prontera princesses grew a thick skin and idiots lost their spark after noticing that they're being ignored. I believe something like this works way better than 1984 style censorship, which inevitably leads to self-rightheous internet white knight circlejerks trying to expunge anyone they dislike. Stuff like this is usually supported by the staff itself due to obscure rules that are up to interpreration, resulting in removal of people just because staff and their buddies dislike them.

Obviously, cases of extremy idiocy and actual harrasment should be dealt with but it usually goes way too far, we're trying to keep a healthy balance in here.



#57 Psor

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 02:57 AM

Best server I played on had pretty much no rules regarding speech and the community mostly evolved to moderate itself, prontera princesses grew a thick skin and idiots lost their spark after noticing that they're being ignored. I believe something like this works way better than 1985 style censorship, which inevitably leads to self-rightheous internet white knight circlejerks trying to expunge anyone they dislike. Stuff like this is usually supported by the staff itself due to obscure rules that are up to interpreration, resulting in removal of people just because staff and their buddies dislike them.

Obviously, cases of extremy idiocy and actual harrasment should be dealt with but it usually goes way too far, we're trying to keep a healthy balance in here.

+1
Total war between guilds is the best kind of competition. The best WoEs I had were on server where after each WoE #main was full of shit flinging and forum section had fucktons of pics that were supposed to make fun of other guilds.
Fuck your fragile feelings and carebear rules. Grow some balls.
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#58 chaoscrisis

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 02:34 AM

I've had several intense rivalries with other players in the past in this game, being able to openly speak your mind with people definitely helps with that kind of experience. No other game I've played has come close to RO in that regard. It can fuel you and give you the drive to keep playing. Most people you pass by on the street couldn't give two shits about you, that's the way the world is, trying to force some fantasy kind of mentality onto a playerbase with extensive rules just kills the experience. How much do you know about yourself if you've never had a nemesis?


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#59 Neryth

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:56 PM

Best server I played on had pretty much no rules regarding speech and the community mostly evolved to moderate itself, prontera princesses grew a thick skin and idiots lost their spark after noticing that they're being ignored. I believe something like this works way better than 1985 style censorship, which inevitably leads to self-rightheous internet white knight circlejerks trying to expunge anyone they dislike. Stuff like this is usually supported by the staff itself due to obscure rules that are up to interpreration, resulting in removal of people just because staff and their buddies dislike them.

 

I used to think the same thing about a low rate global PvP server I played on years back, but looking back on it now, it was pretty much just an inbred clusterfuck of stupid personal vendettas/real-life drama crossing over into the game. Those things happen naturally, even in a more restrictive or "positive" environment, but on a low rate, relatively low population server, that shit really shouldn't take center stage. When there's little to no moderation, people either devolve and reduce themselves to the lowest common denominator, or they join elitist circlejerks. Conversely, I know full well how things turn out when the server staff actually enforces a draconian list of rules, particularly when they themselves are not held to any standards or expectations. I've had the displeasure of being a GM on a low rate server where the admin had his own character in a WoE guild, and effectively abused his power for their benefit. Everything builds up around the staff and their "favourites", and they tend to use one vague catch-all rule to punish anyone for anything.

 

On "competition" and WoE/PvP, there's a big difference between competitive shit-talking and personal attacks/malicious behaviour. I've had plenty of fun poking fun at guilds and select individuals, pointing out their shortcomings and impotence where WoE or PvP is concerned. I've mocked a guild for letting me get an ungeared caster stalker through their precast, but it's not like I proceeded to repeatedly call them shit and attack them on a personal level. A competitive environment does not necessarily have a high level of animosity and malice in the air. If you look at the original promotional artwork for War of Emperium, it portrays it as a friendly brawl. Even the music on the castle maps is really positive and upbeat, so I think it's unfortunate that most "hardcore WoE" players are basically the exact opposite of what Gravity seemed to promote.



#60 Terpsichore

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:06 PM

Seems like we had similar experiences, so yeah, this aspect should be balanced.


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