32 replies to this topic

[Terpsichore]

Since there's been many complaints about those skills when combined with Iron Nails weapon, I'm contemplating these solutions:

 

 

1. Nerf the damage of those skills. Not what I would like to do as they're fine with basic gear and the current WoE damage reductions when using any other weapon.

 

2. Nerf the weapon. Same thing, it is perfectly fine with other skills (also thinking about improving the unused Sura skills).

 

3. Make TC and GoH not benefit from defense ignoring effects, this option makes the most sense to me considering the nature of the skills and uniqueness of the weapon. It would still be useful for all other skills, plus fixed Rampage Blaster isn't that bad actually.

 

 

Any ideas?

[Syncope]

wear cranial shield

[Vadertan]

Nerf Dark Claw.

[Scias]

No need to nerf the skills themselves. It was fun watching our AB pot out of GoH last woe.

[Donker]

Get 1 hit by a skill? Better cry to a gm and ask for it to get nerfed because we suck too much to be on enemies level.
Reminds me of a server where any skill we used in WoE it got nerfed the next day lol

[Terpsichore]

I would appreciate if people who have no idea about this issue/don't want to contribute anything to the discussion refrained from posting.

[Aina]

Even tho some of my teammates might(and will) disagree with me, I don't think that such nerf/change is required. I think players themselves should come with something/solution against what others are using, and it's not like we have a huge player base to see people thinking on how to counter the other team items, or how classes that aren't being used right now could interact with those skills(or could be used to counter that). I don't see it as an extreme case to be required a nerf.

[Salad]

Aina, the thing about the interaction between Iron Nails and these skills is that it's a very different circumstance than on all other servers. We are a hard DEF focused server with lower end demi-human reduction and understandably so. I've tested the damage formulas for these two skills intensively a month or two ago with and without Iron Nails. GoH and Tiger Cannon's damage both comes in two instances: ATK % and HP/SP %. It's likely that any atk % gear and demi-human % etc. and size modifiers are only boosting the ATK portion currently, same with ATK buffs/weapon refines. However, the DEF ignoring effect from Iron Nails is applying to the HP/SP portion of the damage, which in GoH's case ignores demi-human resistances and is contributing to a disproportionate amount of damage increase.

 

A +0 uncarded Iron Nails will probably still out-damage any other possible weapon and refine on LeikaRO with these skills on any target with a shield (large chunk of hard def). This isn't a case of Iron Nails being stronger against targets with highly upgraded gear and massive DEF, this is a case of Iron Nails being at least a 20% to 30% damage increase on most targets, it would only do less than any other weapon if you're like a +0 white wing set ranger with a bow on (lol). 200 Hard DEF which is something everyone can easily get is ~25% damage reduction, 300 DEF around 32%. **

 

Iron Nails is customly obtainable on Leika and is literally an Incantation Samurai card for PVP/WoE (nevermind elsewhere). That's crazy. Put together with LeikaRO's DEF focused system, that's silly. This weapon was not designed to be implemented on a server like ours without +24% demihuman resist upper headgears and like 80% ranged reduction/demi resist total.

If you want a thought exercise as to the impact of this weapon, think about this:

Any other weapon VS Iron Nails on a geared target on Leika OR Any other weapon VS +14 KvM/Vellum on a siege set target on iRO/elsewhere...

Which weapon swap would produce a more dramatic % damage difference on those targets? I have not played with whacky iRO gear sets but I wouldn't be surprised if a +5 Iron Nails was more of a damage difference considering it's usually like 35% damage increase that's from IGNORING DEFENSE, DEFENSE BEING THE ONLY THING THAT REDUCES THE MISSING HP PORTION OF GOH LOL HELP

 

I'm with Terpsichore with solution 3 being the right choice going forward, a custom change is needed for a unique situation between game interactions that's happening on Leika. Leika is already heavily customized with our unique interactions to begin with, this one just happens to make a lot of sense on that route too. Watching Suras with Iron Nails fade away while I stand next to them on my warg is like infinitely more satisfying and amusing than pressing GoH once at medium/red HP or just having songs on my own Iron Nails Sura lols

 

If the concern is this being a nerf to Suras in PvM, Tiger Cannon has been fixed to properly apply bonus splash damage along with skills actually being functional so they're actually stronger than they've ever been on the server. If the concern is that Gates of Hell is somehow too weak after this change (which I doubt) the missing HP damage might not be interacting properly with ranged reductions/defender at the moment so there is room for improvement that's not the sad, sordid, affair that is a sura vs sura "duel" on the server right now which is the winning sura tanking a GoH then firing one GoH with like 90k unreducable damage in WoE because lols we both had Friggs/Apples*

*I'm not sure if not ignoring DEF will actually change this extremely high skill battle of chess going on in this mirror match up how did champions devolve into suras

 

 

** These values were estimated eyeballing the chart on iROwiki regarding hard DEF, but actually doing the calculation formula reveals it's even higher reduction than the chart shows.

Edited by Salad, 06 December 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[Donker]

I don't get the meaning of this topic, Iron Nails is obtainable in game by anyone right? Anyone can make a sura right? So why asking to nerf something that everyone can get?
This is a QQ topic because someone is losing everytime and blame something that he can actually get in game.
Make a sura, get your Iron Nails and do the same as the others do, shouldn't be that hard i guess.

[Syncope]

I have to agree that this topic is aimed at our suras being dominant. The most recent woe, our suras actually had trouble one shotting compared to the other woes where/when it was as if our suras were normal hitting novices.
Dont blame the skill (goh/tc) or the weapon. Maybe your sorc needs to explore sorc skill tree some more rather than clinging on to prerenewal dispell-mash-meta forever.

Then again if the shit we use to capitalize gets nerfed, just like any other server, we'll find another meta to wreck you scrubs.

[Terpsichore]

I have to agree that this topic is aimed at our suras being dominant. The most recent woe, our suras actually had trouble one shotting compared to the other woes where/when it was as if our suras were normal hitting novices.
Dont blame the skill (goh/tc) or the weapon. Maybe your sorc needs to explore sorc skill tree some more rather than clinging on to prerenewal dispell-mash-meta forever.

Then again if the shit we use to capitalize gets nerfed, just like any other server, we'll find another meta to wreck you scrubs.

The issue was originally brought up by one of your guys and it was confirmed through tests and actual WoE gameplay observation by me. This is about an actual balance issue and not someone crying, as you should know already, I don't care at all about people trying to push their agendas with teary eyes.

But such things always end up with people victimizing themselves and making up conspiracy theories about evil staff who wants to personally nerf them.

[Hammertime]

I don't even think iron nail is that good anymore. Basically without buffs you can't oneshot anything. As seen in last WoE sura wasn't killing anything without striking/odins. Gets countered pretty well by dispell. Even supports took sometimes 2 shots when alone and with devotion can't kill anything. I think last WoE has put the entire sura nerf thing into perspective. The metagame seems really balanced at the moment. Flash combo was not killing anything (killed maybe 4/5 players with it) most kills were pick offs on out of position players / dispelled players with GoH last WoE.

Edited by Hammertime, 06 December 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[Salad]

You do realize everyone in our guild had Friggs + Apples on at like all times last WoE right? I think last WoE has put the entire sura nerf thing into perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The metagame seems really balanced at the moment.

 

 

That feeling when a sura snaps into us with FC Tiger Cannon after a recall and leaves all of us at red health because we had 2 HP songs muh one shots

Edited by Salad, 06 December 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[Syncope]

You do realize everyone in our guild had Friggs + Apples on at like all times last WoE right? I think last WoE has put the entire sura nerf thing into perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The metagame seems really balanced at the moment.

 

 

That feeling when a sura snaps into us with FC Tiger Cannon after a recall and leaves all of us at red health because we had 2 HP songs muh one shots

 

wear cranial shield

 

First couple of posts your eyes were just teary, now you're literally crying. I'm pretty sure your sura(s) are capable of doing the same thing unless they're complete utter scrubs which they most likely are.

[Salad]

You got me, I did have tears in my eyes when I read the new posts today from laughing. I'm not sure how that's relevant though. Might want to heed Terpsichore's warnings instead of spamming the topic, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything constructive from you or the little syncopes on the forums.

[Syncope]

You got me, I did have tears in my eyes when I read the new posts today from laughing. I'm not sure how that's relevant though. Might want to heed Terpsichore's warnings instead of spamming the topic, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything constructive from you or the little syncopes on the forums.

Dont hide it. Its pretty obvious. Its okay to cry. Im sure Neryth has a lifetime supply of kleenex for you.

Edited by Syncope, 07 December 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Neryth]

Syncope, I think you need to just take a deep breath... and let it go. There are other sections of the forum where you can stir shit and wave your dick at anyone willing to waste their time with you.

 

It's okay that your Suras got shit on by a level 140~ Sura with basically no gear (other than Iron Nails lololol) more than a month back, cried about Iron Nails, and then immediately switched to using them from whatever shitty maces they were initially wearing.

It's also okay that they are literally getting rolled over by a (nerfed) Warg Dash Ranger right now.

Dying to Cross Ripper Slasher from a 110 STR GX wearing a +4 Boned Infil? Who cares?

Putting your Killing Cloud off-center when defending? Sure.

Standing in Oblivion Curse Poison Smoke behind your cades? Shit just happens, you know?

 

See, you and your guildmates shouldn't be bothered by any of those things, the same way I'm not bothered by you mashing stupid shit and saying "LOL BADDIE!!!" when I freeze an average of once per WoE in between Manhole chaining or six other Renewal status effects hitting me. What all of these things have in common is that none of them are relevant to the topic of this thread (other than the first point, which could be considered anecdotal evidence that Iron Nails does something stupid as fuck to GoH damage). All of that is irrelevant, just like your own posts.

 

If you're either too stupid or too childish to do some research and actually contribute, don't post.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that Iron Nails shit on every other weapon for Suras right now for reasons already mentioned above. Can't be bothered to read? Good for you, but shut the fuck up already.

 

Hammertime is saying that Iron Nails FC/GoH not oneshotting everything anymore must mean it's balanced, or "not good anymore" (l m a o) instead of possibly looking at our class composition and figuring out that our response to it was to buff up our HP with songs and as much +%HP gear we could get on short notice. Even if you think the only things that are broken or imbalanced are things that can one-shot (which is a worthless and binary method of assessing the health and balance of the game), you can just escalate with HP songs and/or other buffs and go back to one-shotting.

 

Personally, I just think that the primary physical damage in WoE being allowed to completely ignore DEF is incredibly stupid.

[Syncope]

1. Well it seems like youre the first guy willing to waste your time with me by replying a boring long ass wall of text. Mustve learned a lot from Psor. Good job.

2. Shit on by your sura how.........? I have a replay of every WoE we attended. I can send em to you so you can watch your shitty sura diving and dying immediately.

3. Again I have replay of every WoE. You can watch them and embarrass yourself even more as I never died to Warg Dash in gvg/woe setting (in pvp yes), in fact my guildies called it hilarious on teamspeak cause who the fuck uses Warg Dash on WoE/GvG..

4. Lol please stop being delusional. You should know by now that I have the most demi human reduction during WoE just like how we all know how your gx is so shitty. You basically just attend WoE to spin, not deal any damage, die, and respawn at your savepoint. The only times I died was due to mechanics self destruct, masq that strips shield and ck, and sura combo that I'm not even whining about. You know it yourself that you guys always gang up on me yet I still out-pot any damage you guys deal and if I do die - well you guys wasted enough time to kill me alone. And if you still deny this, like I offered I can send you the replays.

>Btw, one of our guild member's alt AB happen to be in your guild and I read your guild chat during WoE : "Grief, can you please manhole Syncope?" "Please dispell Syncope? Where's Aina? Aina dispell Syncope." "Kill Syncope first, please!"

5. Yeah please tell me more about my cloud kill placement cause the only thing I care about it is to interrupt casts. ALSO, last WoE, if youre not yet demented or too embarrassed to admit, I choked all of you guys at left side of emp room . Again, I recommend you watch the replay so you can shit yourself.

6. Your oblivion curse that lasts LITERALLY 6 or 7 seconds? LOL. Good fucking job man. We were never oblivion cursed behind cades cause I used spell break every time you casted it. The only time I was oblivion cursed was near the emp after you guys broke the last set of cades. Again, watch the replay man.



Wow you're not bothered at all huh cause you posted here to notify me that you're not bothered. Makes fucking sense.

I already contributed by saying that your sura should step it up. I believe theyre capable of copying us, no? That'd be hilarious but don't worry, we're used to people jacking our shit.

@Terp, don't close this topic. I just wanted to reply to his foamy mouth. You guys can continue suggesting shit that wont change anything.

Edited by Syncope, 08 December 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Psor]

Little syncopses on suicide watch

Edited by Psor, 08 December 2015 - 07:30 PM.

[mornaval]

anyone watch the new E3 trailer for CoD