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Status resistance mechanics


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Poll: Status resistance mechanics (13 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think there should be status immunity achievable through stats?

  1. Yes (7 votes [53.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  2. No (4 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

  3. I'm fine with anything/I don't care (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

What should be amount of stat to reach status resistance cap?

  1. 100 (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  2. 110 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 120 (3 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  4. 130 (5 votes [38.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

  5. 140 (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  6. 150 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  8. I'm fine with anything/I don't care (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

Do you think only base stats (stats from buffs, gears and maybe job bonus don't count) should count towards status resistances?

  1. Yes (4 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

  2. No (6 votes [46.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.15%

  3. I'm fine with anything/I don't care (3 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

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#1 Psor

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:56 AM

Let's use this thread to figure out what to do with status resist mechanics in the end because stuff is getting more and more ridiculous.

 

As you know, on official servers you get immunity to pre-re statuses like stun, sleep, silence etc for having 100 of certain stats.

 

On Leika it was changed to 90% capped at 120 or 130 stat to make statuses more useful. This allowed people to inflict stun, poison, silence and other stuff for short amount of time, enough to break casts and get little advantage, but not enough to completely fuck up someone and get 100% chance to win.

Normally this could fuck up many builds, but in renewal, especially on increased rates which most privs have, farming foods isn't that hard and you were able to fill that gap with foods and new buffs when there was need for it. People who wanted statuses had them,even though renewal statuses were already impossible to get immune to, and getting cap didn't involve drastic changes in playstyle.

 

Christmas patch changed status resists once again, this time allowing immunity, but at the cost of 150 of stat. Because of very high cost of increasing stat points over 100, this fucks up all low lvled chars, lowering their chances of resisting status and increasing duration of said status. It also fucks up lot of builds. Now you're basically forced to run build with 110-120 vit to even be able to achieve 150 with foods and buffs. And that's just one stat, while old statuses resistances are spreaded on several stats. This means you either kill your damage, or get completely shat on by at least 1-2 statuses, and we all know Terp makes MvPs more challenging, lot of stuff spams screenwide statuses like sleep, silence, stun etc while gaining power boost in form of fixed monster matk, hp buffs, screenwide damage, sp drain etc. Not to mention PvP and WoE where you can make status weapons with highly spammable skills or use ninjas who easily inflict statuses with high chance using AoEs. Because more and more gears require specified, high amount of stats (most of the time 120), builds are getting unified even more, leading to 120*3 build be new 99*2 from pre-renewal. Many classes profit from Temporal Boots, mostly dex ones (also high dex brings us closer to the instant which is helpful, especially in breaking precasts in WoE) so you go for 120 dex, now you need around 120 vit, if you go for another 120 for something else, you're left with just ~30 leftoever stat, if you get just 100, you're left with ~90. This means people are forced to make specified builds for very tight range of skills and getting 130 of base stat for skills that scale of it (ABs make great use of 130 int, it boosts sorcerers Psychic Wave and they need that sp after soul change nerf, rangers and can use it to boost their skills and be able to hit that fucking retarded NPC_AGIUP which can't be dispelled with anything, devo RGs and DB RKs could make use of high stats, many examples) is not worth it anymore. It also nerfs a bit new cards like Antique Book or Menblatt which already were trade offs for reductions.

 

In short:

>it fucks over low lvled chars

>it drastically changes char building, leading to unified builds and getting more than 120 stat even less worthy

>nerfs some gears and cards

>makes most of endgame content even more mats consuming than it already is, where there's already only like 1 or 2 groups of players who can even tackle it

 

Original Leika change with 90% cap already wasn't really needed because new statuses and there're just few reliable status inflicting skills, but this recent change is simply beyond retarded. I talked with some people and I'm not the only one who finds this last change bad idea.

 

I want to discuss here if we should return back to 120stat/90%cap or stay with this shit we have now, or implment something new. Please post which mechanics you'd support most and explain why. Feel free to suggest your own values for chances, caps etc. I'll also add couple of polls out of curiosity, but if there will be no explainations, they might as well be ignored due to ease of abuse and usual circlejerk and other stuff.

 

I myself suggest 130 stat for immunity to old statuses. This gives nice balance between trading power and immunities. With 100*5 you can get many immunities with big cost (foods and buffs for almost all stats), but your power and casts will suck, and the more stats you increase further, the more statuses you're fragile to, while not really changing base builds because you still can fill the gap of 30 stats with foods and buffs. It's also equivalent of 99 from pre-re (you can get only two of stats to 130, just like you had enough points to get only two stats to 99 in pre-re). In PvM where people don't run on foods 24/7 you'll still be affected by short duration statuses unless you reach for foods and buffs. It won't be so heavily leaning towards statuses so getting 130 of str, dex or int still will be worth it.

 

The other option I can swallow is getting back to 90% cap at 120 stat because it was decent compromise despite not really being needed.

 

While I was discussing, there was also idea of only base stats affecting status resistances. Post what you think about this one as well.

 

Discuss.


Edited by Psor, 13 January 2016 - 01:57 AM.

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#2 Syncope

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:13 AM

Ninja aoe status is retarded nerf pls

#3 Aina

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:32 AM

Immunities are dumb as they invalidate a lot of game mechanics that could be explored in other ways, also making cards that give status immunity no use/useless because everybody will just aim for the maximum/reasonable status resist and ignore other status creating shitty-meta builds.


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#4 Psor

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:52 AM

You still don't get frozen immunity from stats and PvM runs show that not everyone has agi to prevent sleep so nightmare might be in use for PvM as well. And last WoE showed that some suras don't have much int as well because they got silenced hard.


Edited by Psor, 13 January 2016 - 03:53 AM.


#5 Salad

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 07:15 AM

Silence and Poison is cured by a 40z potion which costs literally less than a Red Potion so I will never understand any complaints about that. You shouldn't be able to get immunity to those statuses without dedicated gears like Marduk card. The point of them is to disrupt people enough to pot. If suras are getting silenced that's a good thing rofl

 

Having status immunity be only effected by base stats is awful and going to go against what you're arguing for which is build variety. I more or less agree with Aina, current mechanics are nice for applying status in PvM because it actually like, happens now. That's the one real plus to this  but I'm against status immunity as a whole because it pushes people to pot foods/run high stats just to be immune because people would rather not make the effort to not press a key completely. I thought the 90% cap before was actually quite eloquent as a solution but not properly implemented because status duration was really really low if you happened to actually get hit by it.

 

I would actually like status resistance scaling to work as it is now but with a hard cap of 90% at 140 :-)



#6 Psor

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:48 AM

Reminder to post suggested values for stats and resistance cap. And explain choices. Right now there's more votes than posts and only Salad suggested anything.

Also reminder there're skills that lower enemy stats to counter foods and other stuff. For example Harmonize reduces all stats by 30, WL can reduce agi and dex by massive amounts with his skills, Mandragora decreases int and those are only ones I have on top of my head. Try to not be one sided just because some players are too dumb to use skills.



#7 Hammertime

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:16 PM

Can't you take it easy with your wall Psor I can't read it m8. The questions in this poll should be combined not seperate. The cap for immune obviously would be estimated lower if only base stats would be counted by a person. There is no valid comparison here. Also it depends on which statusses we are talking about. Freeze/Stone immune through stats hell no. The other statusses: Yes and maybe lower values(base no equips/foods) 110/120 comes to mind. PvM statusses shouldn't be this absurd tho. This is mostly the WoE perspective. 20 seconds sleep is ass in PvM.


Edited by Hammertime, 14 January 2016 - 06:29 PM.


#8 Psor

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:01 PM

I can't read it m8

How does it feel to be on your way to illiteracy?

 

If you actually read the post, you'd know why those polls look the way they are and why they're here in the first place. You can just ignore them. There was nothing about frozen and stone curse. Read before posting.


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#9 Terpsichore

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:30 PM

The "130" to match "how it was during trans" argument doesn't really work because during trans we didn't have the ability to easily raise four stats to 100, brew cheap 20 stat foods and buffs like lauda. With such a low cap we would also have pretty much everyone immune with basically no investment other than 100 base vit which everyone has and a cheap food (also have to consider that multiple classes already run 120 vit builds), defeating the whole purpose of the change.

The "you must absolutely build around getting immunity because it is possible now" argument also doesn't really apply because it assumes that the game isn't playable without the immunity, but this isn't trans and our woes don't revolve around armies of gypsies mashing scream and wizards stacking meteors. Renewal woe is less static, more chaotic and generally punishes stacking and passive gameplay, which is what made stun so prevalent back then.



#10 Rueska

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:45 PM

I think 120~140 amount of stat seems reasonable. 100 is too low for sure. Partially agreeing to what Salad said.


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