31 replies to this topic

[padkoto]

Going kind of off-topic but it's been a while since I play RO... After +10 using the NPC is better than using WS?, I mean it in the sense that you have more chance of succeeding with the NPC than the WS.

Up to you to decide. I'm saying that WS is statistically more likely to refine higher, even if you are risking it breaking instantly (vs breaking slowly after losing refines)

[neferefer]

Oh I was wrong then. Padkoto is absolutely right, and it is statistically entirely in WS refine's favour. I agree, it's dumb that WS refine is better for cost as well as chances. It should be viable, but not the best option in every regard. There absolutely does need to be a reform, and I'd suggest better rates above +10 for all options.

On a related note, I think the decision-making process for these kinds of major changes should be more transparent. At the very least there should be some kind of mention that they could be subject to change. It's frustrating not knowing that things like refine chances or card removal prices could change at any time and without warning. I didn't mind when card removal price changed from 300k to 600k, but in light of the big change the refine system got without warning, it's plausible that the card remover won't even be there one day. That would be pretty upsetting for anyone that had, for example, carded a fairly good weapon with an expensive card, with the intention of putting the same card in a better weapon later, relying on the card remover.

 

Previously, on average you would need ~170 of a level 4 weapon/armour to get to +10, and thereafter you could safely card it and enchant it, and keep on trying to upgrade it forever until you reached +20 (or whatever) without any fear of breaking, and you could even use the item while you were upgrading. Now you need ~245 to get to +11, ~490 for +12, ~1225 for +13, ~4083 for +14... basically it gets ridiculous. It's already unfair that such a change happened, but at the very least big changes like this ought to at least have some warning, imo.

Edited by neferefer, 20 January 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[neferefer]

Ah it does actually say work in progress on the refine page, but I'd still like it made more obvious for everything that's subject to change, and I gave the example of the card remover. Also, I actually saw the "WORK IN PROGRESS" banner before the change but was still really shocked at the huge change. It still needs to be made more clear how things can drastically change, and in what way.

[FlashCombo]

Totally agree with the posts here.

Honestly in my opinion +10 needs to be safe with HD. So it actually makes sense to hardcore farm tem from 145+ Mvps (or was it 135+`?) which were mostly all buffed now. Or buy them of course. With the

+10 option they would be viable again. And if the WS gets better refining chances the balance would be restored. im not saying 100% straight +15. BUt something that doesnt make it useless or unfair. Always need to remember this system was build for the thousand masses on officials.

[jimmyjohn]

I think rates should stay the same just have a safe guard at +10.  It suppost to be hard to get high + gears so there is a risk involved when trying to over up them... I think that if u get to +10 u should be rewarded with at least keeping it at +10 but I don't think the rates should change to make it easier to get higher ups

[NiHZ]

Personally I don't see why +10 is so special. If you worked so hard to get it to +9, why shouldn't you be rewarded by keeping it at +9? :P

[padkoto]

+10 is special because that is where the method for refining changes, not +9. With woe starting soon I just want people to be able to have good and competitive gear. If the system stays as it is, players will probably aim for +9 weapons and that seems a bit sad to me as the new refining system will go mostly unused. I also want to know definitively what system we are going to use so I can work out the best and most reasonably obtainable gear

[Syncope]

+10 is special because that is where the method for refining changes, not +9. With woe starting soon I just want people to be able to have good and competitive gear. If the system stays as it is, players will probably aim for +9 weapons and that seems a bit sad to me as the new refining system will go mostly unused. I also want to know definitively what system we are going to use so I can work out the best and most reasonably obtainable gear

do you want that +18 lakumace for your sura?

[padkoto]

Do you want that +18 lakumace for your sura?

Hey fagkoto I can easily tank your asura by tryharding with foods and full buffs in gvg pvp...oh

[Syncope]

Because sorc is all about tanking right? Ohh.. (Scrub)

[FlashCombo]

Thx for off topic, mature level is over 9000.

@Staff
Id like to double confirm this:

 

+10 is special because that is where the method for refining changes, not +9. With woe starting soon I just want people to be able to have good and competitive gear. If the system stays as it is, players will probably aim for +9 weapons and that seems a bit sad to me as the new refining system will go mostly unused. I also want to know definitively what system we are going to use so I can work out the best and most reasonably obtainable gear

[alchefuck]

I was thinking to start such discussion, happy to see somebody started it already.

 

The system should involve to the old version: +11/12 safe, and just 1 downgrade if the process fails with HD ores (when I checked the Cash Shop joining this server I *seems to* remember HD ores - if somebody can, please, confirm or correct me - said "in case of fail your gear will be downgraded by 1 refine without break").

As padkoto said already the actual change makes no sense: people will aim just to +9 (or even less) and most of bonuses from RE cards and gears will be "wasted"/unused.

I would also add, relating to this:

 

the 100% chance from +10 to +11 and +11 to +12 was removed because of long term worries.

... that is common to get worried, but that should be part of the process before taking such decisions (and not after). Testing is important - and necessary - to solve such situations, removing the chance to encounter them once in game. I wonder how many over +15 (or even +20) is around actually. Also give a short part of LeikaRO community a great advantage over others, cause of their over-refined gears before system change, is not really good. I think what players are aiming mostly is equality to each other, same chances: stating a system already released is not balanced and correcting it after fews players got *unfairly* an advantage is even more dangerous than long term worries. +20 items should be part of the game, without worries: it's more reasonable to adjust and nerf some skill or game mechanic in case such over-refines allows ridicolously high damages than deny people to aim to best gears to PvP/GvG with (cause actually refine system does this).

Last note: this system don't promotes donating for HD ores that, I think, could be a great money-making way to feed server bills, granting a long life span and allowing good performances cause is possible to rent better machines to host in.

 

Thanks for reading and sorry for my poor english, hope can be understood clearly.