39 replies to this topic

[NamiTheKat]

 To Rikter individually:

Spoiler

About guild tax, 80% is already pretty much, does it really need to be increased? o_o (just asking)

     To answer your question, the reason I (we?) want guild tax to go to 99% has NOTHING to do with how fast a guild levels up. Instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with keeping certain characters at certain levels. I absolutely hate having to die over and over again to stay at a certain level, and in some cases, if guild tax is too low, you can't kill but a few enemies before you level up anyways.

 

     I dedicate entire sets of 5+ characters just to lock at certain levels to help other people level up all the time. It's actually one of my favorite things to do in RO (help people level). It's also excruciatingly helpful when trying to quickly level a character of your own - especially for people like me who might end up making 50+ characters at some point in time.

 

Even I used have guild in my previous server, i agree with Gio, not only to help guild level, but also to help guild members level up... 

As far 15 min timer for editing post, I still stand by on what i said earlier!! 

 

@Gio, Rik - Thanks  ;)

[Gionelles]

No, let the evidence stay so people could laugh in the future and argue about the past.

 

I just wanted to address this in further detail, considering it's something that I feel, again, is easily refuted and defeated by simple logic (no offense, Psor).

 

Un-editable posts on the member's side actually reduce infallible evidence and put the moderators in a terrible place, should there be a serious issue in the forums. See the spoiler to understand why.

 

Spoiler

Think for a moment about Facebook's commenting system. It lets you edit and delete posts that you make because they're yours, and you're entitled to them. What if you were to (for example) write up a really long, angry post about something and just slam that Reply button in spiteful rage? Upon reading your submission though, you feel that you're being too harsh - or want to convey your opinion in a more peaceable manner. - Well, by the time you re-read and edit your post, it's already timed out, and you're fucked.

 

In the case that someone said anything bad and offended anyone, it's always a given that the situation should be solved peaceably and with as little moderator intervention as possible. We're adults - we shouldn't need the police to fix everything for us. - I promise that anyone who saw the post will know if it was modified or deleted to begin with, thus letting any conversation about the post (or member posting) continue, unaffected by everything accept the quote button (and you can edit quotes anyways, so what's the point?).

 

Now, how many people do you know that go back to their hundreds (sometimes thousands) of forum posts and constantly make edits or delete their posts out of chronic paranoia that someone will prosecute them for it? I don't know any, and I never have. The only time I've seen people go back and intentionally edit their posts' content (not grammar) is when they're in violation of some kind of forum rule, or they're informed that their posts are unacceptable/they've been reported to a moderator. I did the same thing on one occasion - someone reported a post of mine (and the reason they did so - no matter how dumb - is irrelevant at that point), and I immediately PMed the person and tried to quietly, peaceably explain myself to them. I also contacted the moderator in charge of the report's action and openly, honestly explained my thoughts on the whole thing. No amount of editing, deleting, or forum spamming could have kept any of that from happening - and it's the same for anyone's else's posts. - Furthermore, no amount of editing, deleting, or forum spamming could have kept the contents of my reported post secret. However, a screen shot would have DEMANDED accountability from the moderator who wrongly punished me as well (he admitted to wrongly punishing me after it was over, and removed my warning), thus preventing moderators from pulling a "your rights end where my feelings begin" on us.

 

​Now, what if someone made an embarrassing post; or showed something they weren't supposed to show (or otherwise a post they didn't have the right to post)? In the event that anyone gets mad at that person, it's again best to have the option to just humbly delete the post in order to avoid needless conflict. Within that time frame, screenshotting and reporting is more than possible, should the person offended deem it necessary, because the offender has no need to change or delete their post if they haven't been informed that someone was upset about it in the first place. Still though, regardless of weather or not we can edit our posts, there's a Report button on the forums, in case someone is seriously offending someone else. If moderator intervention is needed and someone makes a report/takes a screenshot, then it doesn't matter how much the offender edits their post - they're still going to get slammed for their actions.

 

In that respect, the Report button is immensely more dangerous and potentially abusable by the moderators than any other button on the forums - it puts potentially unneeded punishment in the hands of the moderators and the moderators alone, with one sided accountability; whereas the forum members are accountable, and the moderators can take action without any solid proof (because someone got reported. Keep in mind: this is just me trying to think of every possible forum-exploit out there; based on my experience with other, very dishonest, bias forums. In this way, I hope to add to the reasoning behind why we should trust the AesirRO forum moderators by setting them and the players up for success and inevitable trust). Again, this is why screenshots and the sort are a better alternative to proving accountability, regardless of weather or not members can edit their posts. Screenshots are infallible proof that someone said something - and should be included in every report, be it an in-game report, or a forum report. They're still offenses. They're still players getting reported. They're still security issues.

 

So, I know I've been talking a lot about reports and not that much about the actual Edit function. Just to clarify, that's because the original reason I've seen so far that Edit times out after 15 minutes is so that members are held forever accountable for their posts - and I'm trying to use my opinion to show why that's a counter-intuitive decision that works against the moderators and players alike. Now, while I trust the moderators to an extent just from what I've seen on the forums, as well as their good reputation, I still feel they should be held to the same level of accountability as members are. On the flip-side, players should have the same freedom to edit their own posts that the moderators have. Both these issues can be solved and ensured higher security and honesty from the players and moderators simply by doing what I've been trying to explain all along: use screenshots and properly utilize the report function, should there be a serious problem on the forums. That way, no one can abuse the Report function (because accountability reasons that I just explained above), no one can get away with abusing the Edit function, and no one can use the Delete function against anyone else.

 

 

In higher regard to Psor saying we shouldn't edit our posts because people should be able to react to them to them in the future, I will say this: "My rights do NOT end where your entertainment begins. It's the other way around: your entertainment ends where my rights begin."

 

To translate - In any situation where people are just messing around on the forums and everyone is having fun, the rest of the members of the forums should not be inhibited of their ability to use a function that has many critical uses (Edit), just because you think it's funny to be able to quote anything ever made for your own personal enjoyment. Personal enjoyment is on a level below reporting, security, and freedom of speech and entitlement to one's own comments and words online.

 

Instead, your personal enjoyment is of no value once it infringes on my rights.

Edited by Gionelles, 27 October 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[Psor]

1. Different types of people post different types of shit thus encounter different situations. Because of the types of discussions I participate in and types of communities I discuss with I saw fucktons of people who "delete" their posts, even the few years old ones. Usually it was either to remove all the traces of their activity when they were quitting (which turned fucktons of threads into mess you can't get much infro from) or to backpedal/provocate others/gain upper hand in discussion. Unlimited edit has huge potential of fucking up the threads thus fucking up whole forum. It creates trash threads. Then you need to find answer to your question, go through forum and find just incomplete garbage. You create another thread shitting up the forum even more or you post in some old one and get called out for necroposting. Fuck these people. Necroposting is much better than creating fucktons of threads with the same question where in 80% of them people just answer "already answered, google it".

Ofc you didn't see many of such people. It just takes to look at your posts and the fact you used such shit as facebook in your argument to understand why.

Also ability to check history is great hint who you should interact with. Retardation should be filtered, shunned and shamed. If you tolerate cancer it spreads.

 

2. If you rage you shouldn't post. Feelings are nice in home with your family or something. Almost everywhere else feeling are cancer. Leave your fucking feelings at home. I could use your argument to defend "murder in rage" or something. If you're mad, shut down your PC, take few deep breaths and go outside take few laps aroung your house. You should NEVER act under influence of feelings, especially anger.

 

3. Apology is better than removing tracks of your faggotry and in todays fucked up world it could be even seen as some kind of shitty bravery. Apology after fuck up > let's pretend it never happened. Trust me, if you admit it's your fault when you fuck up you'll be seen as much more mature and in the end even gain more.

 

4. Screenshots can be edited as easily as edit can be abused by mods. Oh wait, mods aren't as random and numerous and if admin cares about his site he'll try to pick mods carefully to not fuck up his site reputation. Actually chance that mods will abuse such shit as edit button is smaller because they actually have bigger stake in it than random users who just consume. Consuming is always MUCH easier than creating.

 

5. There are no rights. There are just privileges.

[Scias]

[Gionelles]

I'll be the first to say that I'm actually glad to see you make this long post, Psor. Perhaps I didn't get your intention behind supporting uneditable posts before - but I do now (and you make some good points).

 

Here's all my responses to you.
 

Spoiler

1. Different types of people post different types of shit thus encounter different situations. Because of the types of discussions I participate in and types of communities I discuss with I saw fucktons of people who "delete" their posts, even the few years old ones. Usually it was either to remove all the traces of their activity when they were quitting (which turned fucktons of threads into mess you can't get much infro from) or to backpedal/provocate others/gain upper hand in discussion. Unlimited edit has huge potential of fucking up the threads thus fucking up whole forum. It creates trash threads. Then you need to find answer to your question, go through forum and find just incomplete garbage. You create another thread shitting up the forum even more or you post in some old one and get called out for necroposting.

I certainly see what you mean here, as I've been there before: and it's obvious that you're basing this assumption off of actual threads you've actually participated in. I personally agree that it has potential to ruin threads, but I don't think entire forums end up going haywire based on the inevitable percentage of ass-hole members that go back and edit their posts.

 

I was trying to base my argument on "in the worst case scenario, how do we ensure maximum security?" Perhaps security isn't as important on a small forum as enjoyment is. Though, is enjoyment freedom? Or is security through mutual trust by means of forever editable posts freedom? Honestly, it depends on how you look at it. I guess it's just how I think: and with that, I can denounce my standing on this topic as a purely situation opinion of mine.

 

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." That would suggest that I need to chill - and to an extent, that quote is more in favor of your argument, Psor. 

 

In any case, I find that people who try to gain the upper hand in arguments through editing and/or deleting their posts have already lost the argument: and I'm sure you agree on that. Normally, the people involved in the argument will see the edited post and hold those immature actions against the person who edited them.

 

At least with me, if someone uses something I said against me, I either give them credit for it, or I clarify in greater detail what I was talking about. However, I know that not everyone does what I do.

 

 

Fuck these people. Necroposting is much better than creating fucktons of threads with the same question where in 80% of them people just answer "already answered, google it".
Ofc you didn't see many of such people. It just takes to look at your posts and the fact you used such shit as facebook in your argument to understand why.
Also ability to check history is great hint who you should interact with. Retardation should be filtered, shunned and shamed. If you tolerate cancer it spreads.

I can agree with "if you tolerate cancer, it spreads." It's certainly impossible to prevent the inevitable percentage of ass-hole forum members from existing and stinking up forums - and as such, it's usually nice if "retardation" can be suppressed. - However, those "retards" at the very least have entitlement to their own opinion. I certainly think that voicing your opinion is a privilege that comes at the cost of respecting the forums' rules and all, but I do not think that it should come at the cost of inhibiting the lawful and respectful forum users. Let me make this into a personal analogy though: just because some of the public does something stupid with a certain privilege, doesn't mean the entire community needs to have a ban placed on said privilege. The lawful, honest forum members drive the threads; not the idiots.

 

As for using Facebook in my argument: I do so for two reasons.

 

1: Facebook is madly successful.

 

2: People's Facebook profile and Facebook comments can be viewed as very personal - again, with a sense of self-entitlement. - However, Facebook has a vastly larger amount of members and commenters on it than any forum on the internet. Yet still, the people alone find a way to deal with the inevitable percentage of ass-hole members. I get that Facebook is fundamentally different from a video game forum, but I don't think that makes the similarities between them obsolete.

 

Simply put: if a huge mass of people can do it, then why can't a smaller, more personal forum group do it too?

 

 

2. If you rage you shouldn't post. Feelings are nice in home with your family or something. Almost everywhere else feeling are cancer. Leave your fucking feelings at home. I could use your argument to defend "murder in rage" or something. If you're mad, shut down your PC, take few deep breaths and go outside take few laps aroung your house. You should NEVER act under influence of feelings, especially anger.

I agree with you 110% on this. However, weather or not I agree doesn't stop the inevitable percentage of ass-hole members from posting angrily; as we cannot control the actions of others.

 

 

 

3. Apology is better than removing tracks of your faggotry and in todays fucked up world it could be even seen as some kind of shitty bravery. Apology after fuck up > let's pretend it never happened. Trust me, if you admit it's your fault when you fuck up you'll be seen as much more mature and in the end even gain more.

Agreed. I have no retort to this.

 

 

4. Screenshots can be edited as easily as edit can be abused by mods. Oh wait, mods aren't as random and numerous and if admin cares about his site he'll try to pick mods carefully to not fuck up his site reputation. Actually chance that mods will abuse such shit as edit button is smaller because they actually have bigger stake in it than random users who just consume. Consuming is always MUCH easier than creating.

I get that screenshots are easy to edit - but that doesn't make them obsolete. - Through modifying screenshots, you can slam down some serious forum confusion and abuse, if you want to. In these situations, only witnesses to the original post can provide an honest testimony. The point I was trying to make though was that the Report button is very easy to abuse as well, and screenshots from the person/the people who saw the issue are more helpful than "'he said this!' 'nuh-uh, he said that!' 'but she did this thing!'".

 

Other then that though, I see your point with teh whole consuming being easier than creating thing.

 

 

5. There are no rights. There are just privileges.

​There are some rights - though, it's just the illusion of having rights. - Everything you do on the forums certainly is a privilege granted to you by the moderators, yes. However, I don't want that to turn into "You have privileges because I said so and if you do anything against me or in contradiction to my personal feelings, I'll tyrannically punish you." That's why I made the suggestion in the first place: to help ensure mutual trust between the moderators and the members; making an attempt to put the moderators in a more inevitably trustworthy position.

 

 

I'll also be the first to say that I probably look like I'm taking this way too seriously. The truth is that I'm just trying to analyze my argument, as well as anyone else's argument against me. If someone else has an opinion that opposes mine, but it ends up being a better idea, then I'm all for it.

 

 

Now in response to Scias having no strong feelings either way: I like and dislike that.

 

I dislike it because I want to see more public opinion on this: more of other people ranting, and not just me being long-winded.

 

I like it because it helps to prove that this isn't something people should get too riled up about.

 

​So, do we need more conversation about the topic? Shall we sip on tea as we politely and maturely discuss our personal stances on the situation at hand? Here, I'll go brew up my finest batch! (totally not gonna spike it lol).

Edited by Gionelles, 28 October 2014 - 01:10 AM.

[Scias]

If I had to choose a side I'd be on yours Gio.

I do support post editing, I've never had dishonest rage-edits be a problem since I started screenshoting everything that is suspect, like how I humiliated the truero staff.

And if somebody does abuse it I'm sure it would be obvious to the admins and people can be called out accordingly. (Needs confirmed, can admins see previous versions of edited posts?)

Anyway there doesn't seem to be anyone here yet who would abuse this. Even if someone like eryx posts something that insults the entire human race and violates every law, he isn't the type to go back and edit it.

I didn't read the walls of text btw. I only read psors walls of text when I've basically run out of things to do with my life. I'm sure that will be soon enough though.

[Terpsichore]

Stop fighting over this, we aren't removing the edit timeout.

[Syncope]

Anyway there doesn't seem to be anyone here yet who would abuse this. Even if someone like eryx posts something that insults the entire human race and violates every law, he isn't the type to go back and edit it.
 

Im here on this topic again. What.

[Krabs]

Anyway there doesn't seem to be anyone here yet who would abuse this. Even if someone like eryx posts something that insults the entire human race and violates every law, he isn't the type to go back and edit it.

Im here on this topic again. What.

Your anus must be smiling getting so much attention atm, #analsuperstar

[Gionelles]

Stop fighting over this, we aren't removing the edit timeout.

I'll drop it, as I've already stated my opinion above. Again though, it was in attempt to get the GM team to give it a chance/hear me out: It seems Scias, Rikter, Nami, and I are all in favor of removing the timeout, and I just wanted to place my opinion somewhere. If this wasn't the right place to put it, then I apologize.

 

Though, If someone wants to continue the discussion (it's a discussion, not a fight. My walls of text are there in hopes that the GMs will read them and evaluate the best course of action in a non-biased way), would you mind if we made a separate forum thread somewhere else to do so, Terp?

 

Edit: I'm just curious: would it be alright for you to explain why the timeout isn't being removed? What's the reason for keeping it? What purpose does it serve that outweighs the beliefs presented by Scias, Rikter, Nami and I? Or, should that be somewhere else on the forums? (This is the feedback and suggestions thread, after all - I feel civil discussion should be allowed, so long as it's in the right plcae). -

Edited by Gionelles, 28 October 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Psor]

Stop fighting over this, we aren't removing the edit timeout.

But people being wrong on the internet is srs bsns. And winning arguments on the internet is e-viagra for my e-penis. Also thanks for good decision.
 
@Gio

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." That would suggest that I need to chill - and to an extent, that quote is more in favor of your argument, Psor.

I'd like to point that it's true only for your "worst case scenario". In general this quote favours you because you're the one who advocates for personal freedom. I'm all about total or nearly total regulation. Ofc you could try to bring both things into one with example of self-regulating society (basically example with shunning bad elements) but still on my side it'd be just "people have freedom to limit their freedom".
 

It's certainly impossible to prevent the inevitable percentage of ass-hole forum members from existing and stinking up forums - and as such, it's usually nice if "retardation" can be suppressed. - However, those "retards" at the very least have entitlement to their own opinion.

You should still fight it. Humans are dominating this planet because we actually pursue improvement. Sure advancement brought us both improvement and some shit, but we still try to fight the shit we created with more advancement. And when wise and honest person gets the power things drastically improve. We simply grow our control.
Ofc retards should be able to voice retarded opinions. Opinions should never be prohibited because they create debates and opportunities that lead to more improvement. If retarded shit brings up some decent discussion - great. If it's really shit - bash the retard to improve things but still he should be able to voice his opinion. If it's dangerous it still shouldn't be prohibited but lack of edit forces people to be accountable for what they say. The retardation of talking about dangerous things is that when it's said, people can prepare and avoid it thus by threatening someone you actually fuck up your own "plan" + mark yourself with big red sign "this guy is fucked up and unless he starts to act more mature he should be avoided".
 

Facebook

I meant that facebook is full of stupid, non-serious shit. No one cares and people forget what they said 2 days ago.
 

only witnesses to the original post can provide an honest testimony

lel, what if I'm not honest?
 

There are some rights - though, it's just the illusion of having rights. - Everything you do on the forums certainly is a privilege granted to you by the moderators, yes. However, I don't want that to turn into "You have privileges because I said so and if you do anything against me or in contradiction to my personal feelings, I'll tyrannically punish you." That's why I made the suggestion in the first place: to help ensure mutual trust between the moderators and the members; making an attempt to put the moderators in a more inevitably trustworthy position.

So basically "muh feelings". If you want to be realist (leave your feelings at home) you need to understand that every right is pivilige given by system we created. Doesn't matter if it's government, king or decentralised democracy.  As long as structure we're part of exists we can expect, for example, revenge for crime just because people who form such structure agree on it (because they'd like to get revenge if something happened to them - common goal and mutual care). Without the system there're no rights/priviliges whatever. It all comes down to power that brings control. Just because you created your own system doesn't mean you stopped being part of bigger system that includes you, your creation thus applies its rules on you and your system.

[Scias]

Im here on this topic again. What.

You're basically part of godwin's law now

[Charmy]

TBH I don't care at all about privileges, rights, freedom and shit but it'd be quite handy to have a perm-edit system for several threads: Useful links, guild presentation, server features/formulas, quests walkthrough, AI of homun etc. if it needs to be updated.

[Scias]

Ye I agree especially for selling/buying threads which usually need to be edited regularly, or guild recruitment threads etc

[Gionelles]

@Psor

     That was a nice little philosophical read~ While I don't think all of your points apply to the Forums, I still think they're certainly creditable beliefs, and a large portion of them could be applicable to a few of the forum threads. In any case, I'm glad to see you considering my posts, instead of creating walls-of-abuse, like what most other people online do. It speaks of your personal maturity.

 

@Scias and Charmy

     Never thought about the Selling/Buying threads: but that's a damn good point. If they decide to leave the 15 minute time-out on the Edit function, I would plead they at least lift it on such threads like the Buying/Selling threads (as well as adding the Delete option). Does it open the opportunity for shit-heads to "abuse" Edit in the way Psor mentioned? Well, yeah. But come on, if that was HONESTLY the reason they said "no, you can't even have Edit and Delete on Buying/Selling threads," I'd be all like "Lol ok, well, the safest a person will ever be is in a small impenetrable cage, being fed by people on the outside. Please let me out: IE please lift the Edit Timeout and add Delete to these specific threads. We're not fucking babies: we can use these few threads correctly." 

 

 

Important: my conclusion and ultimate solution.

         Terp and Psor: please read this, as I feel it's a very favorable idea.

 

     I think that in a way, we can come to a compromise, whereas we all get a little of what we want in order to achieve a common goal. Perhaps we could leave the Edit function timed out at 15 minutes on some threads, and then enable permanent edits and Delete on game-function related threads, such as Market Threads, Guild Threads, Tutorial Threads, Server Feature Threads (I guess GM only), Useful Links, etc. That way, we have a little of both: personal conversations still force accountability by timing out your posts: making Psor and Terp happy, and we can use Edit and Delete for it's most important use on game-related Forum Threads.

 

     Honestly, I'd be overjoyed to see this happen. Timing out has a purpose, and permanent Edit/Delete has a purpose. Both seem very important to the community, so why not just use both functions in their most optimum environment? Does it go slightly against my opinion (enable permanent Edit and Delete on all forums ever)? Yes, it does. However, despite that, I think it'd be the best option for the forums; as my opinion isn't always the best solution to any given problem. Neither is Psors. Or Scias's. Or Terp's. Or Rikter's. Or anyone's.

 

    Nothing in the world is seen clearly with just one set of eyes.

 

@Terpsichore

     I know you said "quit fighting over it," but I just had to post this. It's my personal way of trying to passively prove to you that we were never fighting to begin with. I'm here to discuss and come to a peaceful, knowledgeable conclusion based on the experience and desires of all players. No, we can't make everyone happy - but we can sure as hell try. - I don't like to shut other peoples' opinions down, no matter how dumb I might think they are, and I don't want to see any conversations shut down either. I know you mean well by trying to prevent a fight and by trying to focus on one solid decision, but perhaps that way of dealing with the situation doesn't always work.

 

     In any case, no one knows everything, and in any given situation, there's always something we could have done to handle it better. That's why I love discussing these tougher topics with people: to soak up information and opinions. If someone makes a fool of me and proves me completely wrong, then good. I'd rather be proven wrong in favor of knowledge than shun peoples' thoughts in favor of my own personal opinion. I certainly think the same should go for the moderators; and I think it'd be a real statement to the team's maturity as individuals. Again, no one is omniscient, be it a GM, a player, a bum on the street, or the leader of an entire country. So please, I ask you to further consider the opinions of the people who want Edit's timeout here removed, and perhaps my compromise presented above could end up being an ideal solution for us all. Based on Scias's and Charmy's responses, I'd say that they're slightly apathetic to the Edit timeout being removed or not removed on personal threads, but likely feel more strongly about it on game-related forum threads. I feel that way myself, as game-related threads are much more important to me than personal/question/suggestion/bug report threads are. Thus, I want to see to it that they work properly.

 

     Now with all that being said and done, I just want to finish off by reminding the people from TrueRO of how terrible the forums were there, and how poorly they were managed. Obviously, moderators and members are equally important to keeping a forum working properly. At TrueRO forums though, public opinion was shunned, the moderators did whatever the fuck they wanted, and they completely abused their positions of authority. Hell, I even got that "Law GM" (not going to mention names) to admit to me of his own free will that he was being a tyrannical ass hole on a few occasions, I was able to publicly prove his actions wrong, the entire community agreed with me, and then Scias went ahead and destroyed and humiliated almost the entire staff there: again, being backed up by the rest of the community. Was it about their actions in-game? Was it about the server rules? No and no. It was about the Forums. I don't want to see anything even remotely like that here. So far, I like this server a lot. I like the staff a lot. You guys do custom fixes and apply rules in one of the best ways - and no I'm not just saying that to prove a point. It's genuinely true. - I just don't want to see the forums fall short when you have everything else going for you. That's all.

 

 

 

 

     Now, by this point, I'm thinking that the conclusion to this issue rests in the hands of the GM team. PLEASE don't just say "lol I'm a GM, and I say we don't remove it, because I said so." I pray you all actually discuss the issue as a team and make some changes; because there's clearly an issue that some players have a problem with, and the issue is inducing a bit of controversy on the forums. The last thing we all need is for it to be written off due to laziness and/or short tolerance.

 

PS: Yes, the Gio-monster was in lawyer mode. I've presented all da testimonies. Dis is me.  ;) 

 

 

                           Rasputin!!                                        

Edited by Gionelles, 29 October 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Scias]

You do realize you have now agreed to post a picture of you dressed in a sexy lawyers uniform.

[Gionelles]

You do realize you have now agreed to post a picture of you dressed in a sexy lawyers uniform.

 

You do realize that's not me, right? She just kind-of looks like me. Hair and skin's too dark with not enough pink in the hair. Her face is a bit too narrow too, and the eyes aren't quite the right color/shape, but meh.

 

Actually, if you tell me you don't know who she is, I'm going to backhand you, Scias. ;) Everyone on the internet knows who she is.

[Scias]

We'll see, depends how your picture turns out.

Backhand has a different meaning where I'm from  :D

[Gionelles]

Does "Fist in your face" have a different meaning too?

[Scias]

Yes